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  1. #21
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Hm... I have had a couple female ESTJ bosses, actually, so I may know! First, and foremost, from the ones I know, they seem to have everything in their job locked down, taken care of to the very last detail, and they know it. As they seem to see it, they have their job down to a science, and it is quite perfected.

    Another big sign is a kind of hostile/suspicious politeness... A politeness that seems very loaded with expectations. They seem to be looking for an exact kind of interaction, and they look for it very critically.

    Like I said, I know 2 ESTJ females. The first, I student taught under. I could tell who passed her 'hostile politeness' tests and who didn't, because she became very free and easy with people who could pass. Those who couldn't, like me, always got the hostile politeness.

    The second is an assistant principal, who I don't see nearly as much, but as far as I can tell, I usually pass her tests. I have changed since my student teaching days, though. My Fe is more developed, and I can actually put some expression into it now instead of just going through the motions. I get a nasty feeling after I talk to this woman, though. It always seems like I have narrowly avoided failure...

    Overall I think ESTJs are very critical about the people they work with, and they have high expectations not only of performance but of interaction and expression of beliefs as well. What drives them is efficiency. They may have their job down to a science, but this could mean terrorizing their coworkers or underlings with the wielding of power and punishment. If it isn't efficient, then they see it as not worthy of their time.

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    "hostile politeness" - that's a good description.
    Perhaps that explains why she had her arms crossed for the first 75% of the interview.

    She was an ESTJ.

    I came right out and told her I didn't think she would like me and I didn't think she should hire me!
    Then she twisted it around on me saying she thought I didn't like her!
    *groan*
    I thought of something brilliant to respond with though I can't remember it any more.
    I certainly didn't want to offend her or hurt her feelings.

    I told her that I was afraid I was too low energy, but since she had such a big project that needed doing, I would be glad to work with her for a few weeks to try it out. She wouldn't have any of that.
    I tried to point out all the reasons why I wouldn't be good for that job!
    She ended up hiring me!
    I couldn't get out of it!!

    I think if I just let her have her way all the time, we'll get along just fine.
    The redeemer in this job is that she'll be out of state for 2 1/2 months this winter.
    I'll have the whole office to myself.
    And she's trying to replace herself, so the next boss could be totally different.

  3. #23
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    But you didn't like her. That was the point. You chose to dislike her before she had a chance to dislike you.

    You tried to bail on the situation based on your perception (/past bad experiences). That's fine. It's your life and time and you perfectly have the right to choose how you spend it. But it is a little disingenuous to say you're doing it to help her in her own goals. She sort of took advantage of your half-assed refusal, didn't she?

  4. #24
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    But you didn't like her. That was the point. You chose to dislike her before she had a chance to dislike you.

    You tried to bail on the situation based on your perception (/past bad experiences). That's fine. It's your life and time and you perfectly have the right to choose how you spend it. But it is a little disingenuous to say you're doing it to help her in her own goals. She sort of took advantage of your half-assed refusal, didn't she?
    If I said it, it was not disingenuous. It was misunderstood by you.

  5. #25
    Senior Member BlackOp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I have a job interview today, and I am terrified of ending up with an ESTJ female boss. I would be her personal assistant so there would be a lot of close interaction. Because I am so highly opinionated, I don't get along well with them. We're always butting heads, and we don't speak the same language.
    Have you read? I hear its good....

    How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
    "A species of perfection and fantasy"......

  6. #26
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I came right out and told her I didn't think she would like me and I didn't think she should hire me!
    Then she twisted it around on me saying she thought I didn't like her!
    *groan*

    (...)

    I tried to point out all the reasons why I wouldn't be good for that job!
    She ended up hiring me!
    I couldn't get out of it!!


    It seems both of you are starting off knowing what you're in for - that's a good sign, methinks. I don't think my old boss would've stood for such an interview. Good luck, and keep us posted!

  7. #27
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Strangely enough, I think it's my own darn fault. There's selling technique - which I don't believe is in Dale's book - called "take it away". It's based on a basic truth about human behavior namely, the fastest way to make somebody want something is to try to take it away from them. I shot myself in the foot when I tried to back out of the job.

    She actually seems a lot less judgmental than my other boss and the office was an absolute mess. I was really shocked. So she can't be as bad as the last lady - I hope.

  8. #28
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It is definitely sort of frightening to see the inherent nature of things (personal or impersonal) being violated just to further external purposes.
    ...
    Thanks for putting that in words for me.
    When I feel violated, I'll try to remember that.

  9. #29
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    yup. And actually, that is right: Winning an argument and being right aren't the same at all.
    as soon as it becomes about winning - everything holistic and true leaves the building in a body bag next to chivalry and honor
    I N V I C T U S

  10. #30
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Hm... I have had a couple female ESTJ bosses, actually, so I may know! First, and foremost, from the ones I know, they seem to have everything in their job locked down, taken care of to the very last detail, and they know it. As they seem to see it, they have their job down to a science, and it is quite perfected.

    Another big sign is a kind of hostile/suspicious politeness... A politeness that seems very loaded with expectations. They seem to be looking for an exact kind of interaction, and they look for it very critically.
    My sister is an ESTJ and yup, you got it down perfectly!!!

    My sister is the only female non-cop I know who actually has command presence.

    She is a production manager and she is no frills or bullshit. She is very short-tempered and curt with her social interactions at work. Efficiency is her middle name, "get the job done, do it well, and make haste!!!!", would be her motto.

    Let's see, what else, most people are scared of her because she is immensely intimidating.

    She can and will yell, though she tries not to. She values competence and efficiency. Hmm, oh yeah, my advice to y'all, get on the ESTJ's good side, , if my sister likes you, she will DRAMATICALLY and DRASTICALLY treat you better!!!!

    She plays major favorites.

    You can't be an incompetent idiot, (in her eyes), though.

    She likes intelligent, reliable people, she also really values a great sense of humor. If she thinks you are funny, and you make her laugh, more than likely you will be accepted as a friend.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

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