• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NT] Neurosis and NTs

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
If I appropriately understand you, detachment is central to progression beyond the neurosis, as it allows the individual to analyze their infirmity, free from extraneous internal variables?
Yes, I believe so. Not letting neurosis get a foothold and take over is the idea, and someone who can't separate what they feel so strongly from their analysis is sub-equipped for that.

If neurosis then begins - and ends - within the individual, is it ever truly vacated? Does awareness of the neurotic tendency forever chain it to one's psychological identity?
Effectively, I think it can be squashed. If caused by external stimuli, and the stimuli are no longer present, I can see the problem being only a memory. Not to mention, there can be emplaced a level of immunity: In knowing the problem can potentially be solved, the resulting confidence can make one more resilient. It's less likely to even become a "problem" in the future.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I would say there is a greater tendency in NTs than others to have control over mind.

Disagree.

All they have control over are the conscious functions, they are as much slaves to the inferior/unconscious functions as any other type. In the case of INTPs the fact that Fe is so undeveloped can lead to very irrational thoughts/feelings/behaviour indeed.

Suicide/depression/mental illness are common amongst NTs. Ns in general. It's the flipside of creativity. See Kay Redfield Jamieson "Touched with Fire".
Also "Strong Imagination" Daniel Nettle.

"And as imagination bodies forth
The form of things unknown, the poet's pen
Turns them to shapes, and gives to airy nothing
A local habitation and a name
Such tricks hath strong imagination."
~Shakespeare.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Allow me to stereotype horrendously to get my point across. Please dilute to taste.

NF: Suicide
SP: Alcohol
SJ: Insanity

:huh: does this mean I have to give up drinking?

I kind of suspect that a J would be more neurotic than a P, regardless of the other letters. The Js I know aren't as good at coping to unforseen events and such as Ps.

Though a P stuck in a tedious job or relationship can be pretty neurotic as well :thinking:

I guess anyone living outside of thier nature is more at risk of developing a neuroticism than anyone not?

*thinking outloud*
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
Disagree...
Well I agree with you there. I haven't said enough, as per usual. By "greater control over mind" I took everything into account: Degree, Instances, and Time. NTs do have "irrational" feelings and thoughts, but they are usually caused by something unusual and specific, and tied to that. Our median moment is not an irrational one.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
:huh: does this mean I have to give up drinking?


Haha :cheers: :D

I am a master at eating nails and I am a neurotic fish, my teacher in driving school feared me, as does all the other people in traffic.

But I support the "NT fix yourself" theory, I myself have come a long way.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
I think it might be valuable to broaden the parameters of the OP to include other types.
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
I forgot to mention: I agree that more Js possess obvious neuroses than Ps. It's what I've witnessed, anyway.
 

Kora

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
477
MBTI Type
ENTP
Could you explain why you want to know?
Are you using the clinical definition of neurosis?

I'm curious. And yes, I'm using the clinical definition.

Night said:
I think it might be valuable to broaden the parameters of the OP to include other types.
Sure, but then it should be moved from here.
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
I'm curious. And yes, I'm using the clinical definition.

If so, then it shouldn't relate much to NT personality types, even under a very general diagnosis (depression vs anxiety vs OCD).

(And before I get jumped on, that's not saying the NTs don't have various outlets for it, it just doesn't relate to those dimensions.)
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
Addendum/clarification to my NF neurosis statments:

NFs can't detach from harmful emotional states because they trust feeling to make decisions, not thinking. When confronted with neurosis, the dominant arbitrary mechanism within their psyches tells them they should feel bad, simply because they do feel bad. It's quite an obstacle, and I have little advice on the matter.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Addendum/clarification to my NF neurosis statments:

NFs can't detach from harmful emotional states because they trust feeling to make decisions, not thinking. When confronted with neurosis, the dominant arbitrary mechanism within their psyches tells them they should feel bad, simply because they do feel bad. It's quite an obstacle, and I have little advice on the matter.

Anyone in the grip of a neurosis can't detach from a harmful emotional state. I don't accept that NFs have any more difficulty in this regard than any other type. You seem to think NTs can will/think their way out of mental crisis - that just isn't the case. If the mind is diseased, then so is the will/thought process.
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
Anyone in the grip of a neurosis can't detach from a harmful emotional state. I don't accept that NFs have any more difficulty in this regard than any other type. You seem to think NTs can will/think their way out of mental crisis - that just isn't the case. If the mind is diseased, then so is the will/thought process.
I do strongly believe there is a difference, but it isn't as if it's black and white, at all.

I see competing forces at work, and if your strongest force is undermined, you're up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
It's like going to sail without your boat, isnt it ?
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
It's like going to sail without your boat, isnt it ?
To maintain the metaphor, let's say...

An NT dealing with neurosis is like a motorboat going against the wind, but an NF dealing with neurosis is like a sailboat going against it.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It's like going to sail without your boat, isnt it ?
+1
excellent metaphor entropie, I was struggling for one.

To maintain the metaphor, let's say...

An NT dealing with neurosis is like a motorboat going against the wind, but an NF dealing with neurosis is like a sailboat going against it.

you are like The Titanic - going down.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
To maintain the metaphor, let's say...

An NT dealing with neurosis is like a motorboat going against the wind, but an NF dealing with neurosis is like a sailboat going against it.

hehe.

Although the NF's kann be amazing; on the one hand my INFJ for example has a remarkeable understanding of the human psyche. Her ability to draw a conclusion, what problems made someones holistic psyche and how they can be helped, is amazing.

But when it comes to pinpointing down the symptoms that could be responsible for causing an illness, she sucks bigtime.

It is amazing, on the one hand, she can enlighten your whole life, with just a few words, but that tiny tiny things that follow a linear pattern, sometimes evade her, because she thinks too wired.
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
Although the NF's kann be amazing
Natürlich. I wouldn't be satisfied without them around. Analysis isn't criticism. They're far better on average than NTs at making people other than themselves happier.
 

LadyJaye

Scream down the boulevard
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
2,062
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I find neurotic NT's much more difficult to reason with than neurotic NF's, because a feeling can be refuted as false, but an NT who clings to their "logic" even when it's clearly faulty, it's almost impossible for them to see otherwise.
 
Top