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  1. #71
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Then again if it's something that can reasonably be considered a small problem, the NT is probably better off left alone. They'll figure it out themselves eventually...
    NF's are just as capable of figuring out how to get things done as an NT, in about the same amount of time in general. I don't see a learning curve because of logic vs feeling.

  2. #72
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    NF's are just as capable of figuring out how to get things done as an NT, in about the same amount of time in general. I don't see a learning curve because of logic vs feeling.
    It's not a matter of learning curve. It's a matter of an NT would get a helluva lot more annoyed than an NF.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    It's not a matter of learning curve. It's a matter of an NT would get a helluva lot more annoyed than an NF.
    NFs have been called more cooperative-minded, and I've never disagreed with that.

  4. #74
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    That's it, exactly. VERY disconcerting, but the positive aspect is that it becomes so apparent that it's wrong that you have no choice but to get some outside input. And you learn to stop trying to fix yourself, really quickly.
    Yes, exactly. I can imagine that an NT who becomes aware of their need for outside help would seek it as soon as the situation provided the insight needed to do that.

    As an NF, I also bristle at the idea of anyone trying to meddle with me, uninvited opinions and attempts to dig out information that I'm not willing to give. Even as a child, I clammed up the minute I perceived an adult trying to extract information from me that I didn't want to share. But, I do know when I need help - I have that AHA! moment, when I'm given a revelation that I need to seek the outside opinion of others, because I know I need others to guide me. I know I can't do everything myself, even as much as I would want to.

    Bottom line - I think both NFs and NTs, when mentally or emotionally afflicted, will do the same unhealthy things.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    Yes, exactly. I can imagine that an NT who becomes aware of their need for outside help would seek it as soon as the situation provided the insight needed to do that.
    Then, when the outside help turns out to be completely ineffective, the NT returns to self-repair and eventually solves the problem.

  6. #76
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post

    I doubt anyone thinks that's how it works. Certainly not me.
    Oh, I would say that more than a few in the NT Private forum would think that about us, and more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It's complicated! Though primarily it was considered intrusion, violation.
    Well, of course someone is intruding. They would have to in order to know what was wrong. But, I do agree that it's incredibly uncomfortable. I don't enjoy it.

  7. #77
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Then, when the outside help turns out to be completely ineffective, the NT returns to self-repair and eventually solves the problem.
    Or wallows around in it helplessly for years. One of the two.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    Or wallows around in it helplessly for years. One of the two.
    Always a possibility. Something to consider though, is that the mere act of "getting help" is not a panacea, and the methods of others are usually workarounds as much as one's own methods are.

  9. #79
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    If I had to guess, the acceptance of help from others in these matters would go like this:

    E > I

    FJ > TJ > FP > TP

    I dunno about TJ versus FP, though. Unless a TJ finds that the problem is seriously affecting something tangible that they can obviously see, they'll be as resistant as the FP.

    Though nobody likes it when it happens.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #80
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Always a possibility. Something to consider though, is that the mere act of "getting help" is not a panacea, and the methods of others are usually workarounds as much as one's own methods are.
    No. There's no guarantee that seeking help will fix the problem, but refusing help is compounding it. And assuming that help will inevitably fail you, and that your method of self cobbling will fix everything isn't accurate either. I'm sure your self help method has failed you on more than one occasion.

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