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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Yes, but if you've kept it going for long enough and you're found out, they may be lucid enough to thank you for it.

    Begrudgingly, of course. Because that's how NTs are with this sort of thing.
    Some, perhaps. I've been on the receiving end though, was having none of it, and retain my spite many years later.

  2. #62
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    This holds true for NFs you are aware of, on average? I'm seeking understanding here, not debating.
    I'm not debating with you. I'm disagreeing with you. Different.

    I know some NF's who are healthy enough to analyze themselves - otherwise anyone could tell us how we should feel about a given situation and we'd be forced to accept it. I do also know a few NF's who are blown around on every breeze because they haven't mastered their emotions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yeah, but if they're neurotic NFs, sometimes they trust their feelings so much that you can't tell them that just because they feel something that it's an accurate view of the situation at hand. However, when I'm in a neurotic/depressed state, I have the same blinders on. It's hard to imagine that life isn't exactly as I'm perceiving it, even though I might logically know that it's a faulty perception.

    This is true. I think it's just two sides of the same coin, though. I think when anyone is in a state of upheaval, they start spinning in circles with whatever processes they trust. I do have a big problem with wanting to fix things and wanting to do everything by myself, but I have learned that I pretty much downward-spiral if I let that go on. Nothing teaches you that no man is an island quite like having to deal with anxiety or depression. You can't logic your way out of those things.
    I agree. When you're in the grip, your primary functions go from an asset to a liability, especially when under personal duress. I had problems with anxiety several years ago, and it was a herculean effort to cut out the feelings from what I knew to be the truth, because my emotions were telling me false things. I can imagine that an NT being fed false logic would be just as upending.

  3. #63
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Some, perhaps. I've been on the receiving end though, was having none of it, and retain my spite many years later.
    This is what I'm not getting - you're defending the fact that you've belligerently not sought help, or allowed help to be given to you, despite the fact you might not have been the most qualified opinion? Why would you do that?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Again, the average NT and average NF are both "healthy."

    It still seems to me the average adult NT might be better equipped to ward off and deal with neuroses if under their assault.
    Arrrgh! You started talking about "the average". If I said unhealthy, the question wouldn't have made sense.

    How can a person who refuses help/intervention when they are in the middle of a mental/emotional crises possibly be healthier than someone who doesn't?

  5. #65
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Then again if it's something that can reasonably be considered a small problem, the NT is probably better off left alone. They'll figure it out themselves eventually...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    I'm not debating with you. I'm disagreeing with you. Different.
    Thank you for providing insight and clarification to my incomplete notions on the subject.

    I know some NF's who are healthy enough to analyze themselves - otherwise anyone could tell us how we should feel about a given situation and we'd be forced to accept it.
    I doubt anyone thinks that's how it works. Certainly not me.

    I agree. When you're in the grip, your primary functions go from an asset to a liability, especially when under personal duress. I had problems with anxiety several years ago, and it was a herculean effort to cut out the feelings from what I knew to be the truth, because my emotions were telling me false things. I can imagine that an NT being fed false logic would be just as upending.
    My rhetoric has revolved around the competition between thinking and feeling in the mind, and that if feeling is corrupted (as I consider to be what neurosis does), logical thinking capability has the potential to control it, but not necessarily.

    As far as logical thinking being corrupted, naturally that would be worse for an NT than an NF.

  7. #67
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    I agree. When you're in the grip, your primary functions go from an asset to a liability, especially when under personal duress. I had problems with anxiety several years ago, and it was a herculean effort to cut out the feelings from what I knew to be the truth, because my emotions were telling me false things. I can imagine that an NT being fed false logic would be just as upending.
    That's it, exactly. VERY disconcerting, but the positive aspect is that it becomes so apparent that it's wrong that you have no choice but to get some outside input. And you learn to stop trying to fix yourself, really quickly.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    This is what I'm not getting - you're defending the fact that you've belligerently not sought help, or allowed help to be given to you, despite the fact you might not have been the most qualified opinion? Why would you do that?
    It's complicated! Though primarily it was considered intrusion, violation.

  9. #69
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Jack - I recommend "The Schopenhauer Cure" by Irvin Yalom.
    Says it better than I ever could.

  10. #70
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    When I saw that Tallulah had posted, I misread the thread title as 'Halitosis and NTs'...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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