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  1. #191
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    That quote is meaningless.
    One can't create objective truth, one can only discover it.
    That's what it says!!
    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    But one doesn't discover it by wading into the fray, one discovers it by calm, disinterested, usually solitary, reflection. If you examine the lives of most of the great discoverers of truth, you will find that they didn't go in much for wading.
    Exactly why you err. All you discover is the reflection of that truth as locked within your mind. Without probing it's connections and seeing how far it's ripples travel you fail to see the wider picture and hence only end up with the dictionary definitions which without the thesaurus oft leave a person for want of a word.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #192
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    That's what it says!!

    Exactly why you err. All you discover is the reflection of that truth as locked within your mind. Without probing it's connections and seeing how far it's ripples travel you fail to see the wider picture and hence only end up with the dictionary definitions which without the thesaurus oft leave a person for want of a word.
    TBF, you could read it either way.

    Why I err? Why I er.....I'm no Einstein (in case you hadn't noticed).
    I'm not saying it stays locked in the mind, unexplored, unchallenged, unverified. I'm just saying it's born there (or first revealed there), not in the fray.

  3. #193
    / booyalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Definitions of objective used are:

    -not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion

    -expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

    Most Objective: INTP...ENTP...INTJ...ENTJ: Least Objective

    I'm confident in this assertion as it pertains to "the typical bearer of type," though I'm sure someone disagrees. As to its importance...Advantage could be gained in dealing with people of these types by way of adjusting initial trust. One who isn't as concerned with self-advancement or control as one is with remaining objective is less likely to deceive.

    I haven't known the typical INTP to ever deal with facts without interpreting them subjectively. The interpretation may not have anything to do with emotions, but that doesn't make it objective by default. INTPs are much less likely than, say, ENTJs to change their preconceived view if the facts contradict it. They're only objective if they haven't made up their mind yet.
    I don't wanna!

  4. #194
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    I haven't known the typical INTP to ever deal with facts without interpreting them subjectively. The interpretation may not have anything to do with emotions, but that doesn't make it objective by default.
    All interpretation is subjective.

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    All interpretation is subjective.
    Agree to disagree. :rolli:
    I don't wanna!

  6. #196
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    Anyway, the simplistic way I'd define objectivity is through a balance of logical and factual. INTPs may be the most logical, but they're not the most factual.
    I don't wanna!

  7. #197
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Anyway, the simplistic way I'd define objectivity is through a balance of logical and factual. INTPs may be the most logical, but they're not the most factual.
    So, to answer the OP, in which order would you rank NT objectivity?

  8. #198
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    The argument has degenerated into disagreements over the timeline of decision making instead of the mindset notion I advanced some time ago. Do what you will, but you're hardly arguing against my position anymore.

    From me, in the first stage of the debate:

    See OP for the definitions. In my words, however: Being objective is making analyses, decisions, speaking and taking action with a big picture view in mind, as opposed to large concern for self interest.

  9. #199
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Anyway, the simplistic way I'd define objectivity is through a balance of logical and factual. INTPs may be the most logical, but they're not the most factual.
    That's not a definition I recognise. If we can't even agree on what we are disagreeing about, what hope is there? We have to stick with a common definition, namely, that in the OP. That defines the scope of this discussion.

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    So, to answer the OP, in which order would you rank NT objectivity?
    Most Objective: booyalab...INTJMom...CaptainChick...Jack Flack: Least Objective
    I don't wanna!

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