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[Fi] NTJs: how does Fi manifest in your type?

mlittrell

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with a question like this the E and I is sort of important (the orientation of the functions are different). With ENTJs it tends to be an unconscious cognitive process that rarely manifests itself in a conscious way. INTJs, well, i wouldn't know, i assume it is something they can consciously play around with but not use confortably on a constant basis.
 

INTJMom

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with a question like this the E and I is sort of important (the orientation of the functions are different). With ENTJs it tends to be an unconscious cognitive process that rarely manifests itself in a conscious way. INTJs, well, i wouldn't know, i assume it is something they can consciously play around with but not use confortably on a constant basis.
For INTJs, Fi is the 3rd function.
For ENTJs, Fi is the 4th function.
 

DigitalMethod

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Definitely. I would be driven to evaluate what I was feeling and why. Then I would agonize over whether or not I had the right to feel that way! I'm still a slave to my feelings, though not as badly.

Exactly my thoughts on the matter.

Slave to my feelings.

Focused on why I feel that way.

Sometimes though I just wallow in the feeling though I do have to admit.

One of the hardest things I've had to face in life, is when I am feeling a certain way very heavily and cannot figure it out. Depressed, sad, or apathic, I don't question really 'happy feelings'. But anyway if I am feeling one of those, it will overwhelm me sometimes, if I cannot figure out why I feel that way, if I cannot make sense of my feelings, that's when the wallowing occurs, that's when life gets painfully slow, it sucks.

But in regards to wallowing sometimes I will know why I am feeling a certain way, but the feeling will just be so overwhelming that I can't help but wallow until the storm passes.
 

Venom

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with a question like this the E and I is sort of important (the orientation of the functions are different). With ENTJs it tends to be an unconscious cognitive process that rarely manifests itself in a conscious way. INTJs, well, i wouldn't know, i assume it is something they can consciously play around with but not use confortably on a constant basis.

ya taht was my point

ENTJ (Te, Ni, Se, Fi)
INTJ (Ni, Te, Fi, Se)

so what predictions does this the cognitive theory make by having Fi 3rd or 4th?



is it like Se in INJ vs ENJ:

INJ: trouble with alcohol
ENJ: playful displays of Se/lots of Se toys-think Tony Stark IronMan

(im partially kidding with the alcohol comment)

how does Fi change from being 3rd or 4th?
 

DigitalMethod

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Correct me if I am wrong but isn't our fourth function our stress function?

Like we tend to more-so heavily rely on it when we are stressed.

If you keep that in mind, 3rd and 4th have a huge difference.

That's like relief versus stress.
 

Venom

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Correct me if I am wrong but isn't our fourth function our stress function?

Like we tend to more-so heavily rely on it when we are stressed.

If you keep that in mind, 3rd and 4th have a huge difference.

That's like relief versus stress.

i think my Se example with ENXJ vs INXJ definitely shows evidence of this.


so it shouldnt really be about whether or not you feel or dont feel. this thread seems to evidence that that kind of theory is utter bullshit. It should really be about in what WAY Fi is expressed rather than by HOW OFTEN you deal with it.

example:
INFP Fi as dominant = how they make decisions
ENFP Fi is parent = guides their dominant
INTJ Fi as relief = a somewhat enjoyable escape from your dominant
ENTJ Fi as stress = a stress point that often nags in your head in opposition to your Dominant

You all probably already knew that. But I think it can be re-interpreted to be more profound when you consider that its possible that on certain days, Fi might "come up" just as often for all 4 of those people, yet its the attitude towards Fi that differs, not the quantity of Fi thoughts.

agree or disagree?
 

DigitalMethod

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i think my Se example with ENXJ vs INXJ definitely shows evidence of this.


so it shouldnt really be about whether or not you feel or dont feel. this thread seems to evidence that that kind of theory is utter bullshit. It should really be about in what WAY Fi is expressed rather than by HOW OFTEN you deal with it.

example:
INFP Fi as dominant = how they make decisions
ENFP Fi is parent = guides their dominant
INTJ Fi as relief = a somewhat enjoyable escape from your dominant
ENTJ Fi as stress = a stress point that often nags in your head in opposition to your Dominant

You all probably already knew that. But I think it can be re-interpreted to be more profound when you consider that its possible that on certain days, Fi might "come up" just as often for all 4 of those people, yet its the attitude towards Fi that differs, not the quantity of Fi thoughts.

agree or disagree?

I express Se when I'm stressed. I hear, everything, and it gets really annoying. I also play games when I'm stressed which might be considered a representation of Se?

I'm not sure if I agree with that. I don't think it's possible to ever measure the quantity of thoughts so.. :thinking:

But yeah I understand what you're saying, that even if my Fi comes up I might brush it off due to something, while if a Fi issue comes up for an INFP they would be much more inclined to embrace it. I agree with that aspect.

Although at the same time I don't feel right saying, "Everyone (or groups of types) has/have equal amounts of function use." Because I highly doubt Fi comes up in my daily life the same amount as an INFP or ENFP ...Although... it might not come up as much in my life as much as an INFP or ENFP because I am not totally guided by it as much as Ni/Te. The sort of "ever present yet never visible" thing. While for an ENFP or INFP it would be more of the "ever present and always visible".

My thoughts are, it's a good theory.
 

Valiant

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NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...

I'm a lie detector-kind of person. I can tell if someone is lying or keeping the truth hidden, in most cases. Or just being general bullshitters, fools trying to sell me useless shit etc. This is not something i've been born with, it's something i've had to focus on to develop in order to get it working properly, I believe. I was quite gullible when I was a kid. But I learned kinda quickly that the only person I can count on in all conditions is myself. Maybe not even that. :D
 

mlittrell

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so what predictions does this the cognitive theory make by having Fi 3rd or 4th?



is it like Se in INJ vs ENJ:

INJ: trouble with alcohol
ENJ: playful displays of Se/lots of Se toys-think Tony Stark IronMan

(im partially kidding with the alcohol comment)

how does Fi change from being 3rd or 4th?

look at my message above to see the orientation. your first two functions are much more conscious and you are able to use them whenever you need them. your tertiary isn't as immediate but it can manifest itself consciously if need be, its more of a novelty i suppose. your shadow is very much unconscious and might poke its head out from time to time. remember, each function acts as an individual part of a team, not as an individual entity. all this to say, in an ENFP for my sake, Te (tertiary) isn't the same as Te (dominant) in an ENTJ. The Te filters through Ne and Fi in an ENFP, so though the basic idea of Te is the same, it is used and shows itself in a very different way.

pardon the random stream of thought lol hope it makes sense
 

Venom

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look at my message above to see the orientation. your first two functions are much more conscious and you are able to use them whenever you need them. your tertiary isn't as immediate but it can manifest itself consciously if need be, its more of a novelty i suppose. your shadow is very much unconscious and might poke its head out from time to time. remember, each function acts as an individual part of a team, not as an individual entity. all this to say, in an ENFP for my sake, Te (tertiary) isn't the same as Te (dominant) in an ENTJ. The Te filters through Ne and Fi in an ENFP, so though the basic idea of Te is the same, it is used and shows itself in a very different way.

pardon the random stream of thought lol hope it makes sense

so would you say that the tertiary Te in an ENFP is only there in so much as to do what Ne and Fi need it to do?

ex:
Te is used by the ENFP to argue for what their Fi tells them.
Te is used by the INTJ to argue for what their Ni tells them.
Te is used by the ENTJ to make everything as efficient as possible in pursuit of goals.

all of that relates to a conscious purpose, while the INFP Te is only there to cause grief?

Relate this Fi:
Fi is used by INFP to make everything as harmonious with inner values as possible.
Fi is used by the ENFP to guide Ne in what is important to values
Fi is used by INTJs to relieve the blind spots of Ni/Te in relation to their inner values

all of that relates to conscious purpose, while Fi in the ENTJ mainly causes grief?

I know i am oversimplifying, but I often grasp best when I oversimplify to begin with and learn to add flexibility later.


ENTJ
As other inferior functions {4th}, it has only a rudimentary awareness of context, amount or degree...Indiscretions of indulgence are likely an expression of the unconscious vengeance of the inferior...When overdone or taken too seriously, Fi turned outward often becomes maudlin or melodramatic.

INTJ
Feeling has a modest inner room, two doors down from the Most Imminent iNtuition. It doesn't get out much, but lends its influence on behalf of causes which are Good and Worthy and Humane. We may catch a glimpse of it in the unspoken attitude of good will, or the gracious smile or nod. Some question the existence of Feeling in this type, yet its unseen balance to Thinking is a cardinal dimension in the full measure of the INTJ's soul.
 

mlittrell

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ok the way i see Te in an ENFP is like this (ive used this analogy before, probably too much): Ne and Fi are two scholars that both have expertise in different fields and speak two different languages. Te is a translator that helps Ne and Fi communicate and it has Si helping direct.

maybe a better analogy: Ne receives information, Fi decides what to do with that information and Te is a structure to give Fi foundation. with that foundation created by Fi, the ENFP will have something to build off of. they can then layer ideas on top of older ideas etc. thats a very quick and dirty analogy (both are) but Te lends structure to the fairly unstructured ENFP.

ive noticed many emotionally unintelligent ENFPs (they tend to not have a well developed tertiary) who have almost a split between the first two functions. they will go from extreme Ne goofyness to extreme Fi introspection and seriousness. they will have great little ideas but they cant seem to pull them all together into one big idea because of that lack of grounding. this is a reason that an INTJ is a good mate for an ENFP...grounding. this refers back to the wise scholars analogy where the Ne and Fi are able to talk fluidly together with the help of Te.
 

LeonardoLestat

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NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...

Acting like nothing affects me emotionally, trying to push emotion out of reasoning, dissociating from things, feeling 'alienated', rebelling with my identity, my feelings theyre chaotic and lots of the time i cant really tell what im feeling or why...

i shield myself from strong emotions, and in effect i look for intensity..

frustration comes from 'goddamnit, the process is held back because these pesty emotions interfere>D'

and. i overreact. :p
 

Frank

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I have found that I usually deal with feelings in one of two ways. If it is a negative feeling it is either ignored or logically broken down thus removing the feeling altogether. If I can understand something it does not bother me too much. When dealing with positive feelings I just try and ride the wave and enjoy it while it is there. I guess thats three ways.
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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I wrote a poem yesterday...which helped me to understand/grasp (the nature of) what I was feeling. So there. ;)

Fi seems to work with Ni for me, making me feel very deeply, but in a non-concrete or person-oriented way. It's a flow, yeah, and you have to ride it and it's definitely introverted.

As for the judging aspect, I've noticed I can get exessively upset about injustice, unfairness, unfair representations, lies...but again, about the concept of it, the idea of it, not the result. My strongest reactions occur when I am the victim of the injustice. Otherwise I'll be empathic, but not indignant.

Speaking of empathy, an example: I will get upset when people don't make the effort to talk to a new person that's introduced into the group (a boyfriend of a girl in our group of friends, for example) and the new person is standing around in silence, but I thinks it stems from the fact that *I* wouldn't want to be in his situation, because it violates my principles, my ideas of "ideal" human interaction (and as an INTJ such situations used to be particularly difficult). I can put myself into the other person's shoes and live their pain. Now that I mention this, that's probably also what drives me to action - I go up to them and talk because I can sense their distress and it makes me uncomfortable. This process possesses an urgency that I recognise in my ESFP friend and that appears to be much less expressed in my INFJ friend. In that situation, I actually feel bad about/frustrated with the fact that the rest of my friends (except for the ESFP then) remain so apathetic, apparently they don't pick up the feeling.

I guess it's very subject-oriented despite the fact that it can come across as catering to people, which it is I suppose. This last aspect might also be the reason why I am less "dominant" in a relationship than I am in all the other parts of my life. I think that this is something that other INTJs have mentioned as well.

Fourth-ded.

Except I wrote my poem this morning. :D
 

LeonardoLestat

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NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...

Feeling nothing/anesthized for a while then suddenly being srprised by some kind of intense emotion, not being in touch with it..
I'll never be fully aware of what I'm feeling all the time, it just dies away into the background, and rationale plays the lead.
It's true what they say about the rational ENTJ (like the ESTJ) being all serious and fully hooked on reason, but then a cat runs out on the streets, and who's the one to save the cat? The big bad ExTJ :blush:
Inferior Fi brings deep-seated feelings values to our black-and-white reason; it's mercy and protectiveness.. in a naieve way, wich makes it kinda sweet I guess :blush:

Inside is an ISFP 4w3... innocent like a child :)

Fi as the inferior (last) function means that it's hard to have and/or express affection; I can be feeling love for someone so intense, yet no matter how I try, I cannot express it, and I'll just pat you on the shoulder with lots of effort... yet on rare occasions, the feelings are freed, and there's lots of affection. But it's very raw, childlike even.
So that's another point: there's always this feeling trapped inside that cannot be fully expressed, and it feels like a cage.
I'm drawn to romanticism, romantic art; the kind that is inbetween fantasy and reality, because of this caged feeling
 

Shaula

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Fi seems to work with Ni for me, making me feel very deeply, but in a non-concrete or person-oriented way. It's a flow, yeah, and you have to ride it and it's definitely introverted.

As for the judging aspect, I've noticed I can get exessively upset about injustice, unfairness, unfair representations, lies...but again, about the concept of it, the idea of it, not the result. My strongest reactions occur when I am the victim of the injustice. Otherwise I'll be empathic, but not indignant.
I too can relate to that. Fi mostly keeps me out of trouble.
 
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