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  1. #31
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...
    I'm a lie detector-kind of person. I can tell if someone is lying or keeping the truth hidden, in most cases. Or just being general bullshitters, fools trying to sell me useless shit etc. This is not something i've been born with, it's something i've had to focus on to develop in order to get it working properly, I believe. I was quite gullible when I was a kid. But I learned kinda quickly that the only person I can count on in all conditions is myself. Maybe not even that.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #32
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    so what predictions does this the cognitive theory make by having Fi 3rd or 4th?



    is it like Se in INJ vs ENJ:

    INJ: trouble with alcohol
    ENJ: playful displays of Se/lots of Se toys-think Tony Stark IronMan

    (im partially kidding with the alcohol comment)

    how does Fi change from being 3rd or 4th?
    look at my message above to see the orientation. your first two functions are much more conscious and you are able to use them whenever you need them. your tertiary isn't as immediate but it can manifest itself consciously if need be, its more of a novelty i suppose. your shadow is very much unconscious and might poke its head out from time to time. remember, each function acts as an individual part of a team, not as an individual entity. all this to say, in an ENFP for my sake, Te (tertiary) isn't the same as Te (dominant) in an ENTJ. The Te filters through Ne and Fi in an ENFP, so though the basic idea of Te is the same, it is used and shows itself in a very different way.

    pardon the random stream of thought lol hope it makes sense
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  3. #33
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    look at my message above to see the orientation. your first two functions are much more conscious and you are able to use them whenever you need them. your tertiary isn't as immediate but it can manifest itself consciously if need be, its more of a novelty i suppose. your shadow is very much unconscious and might poke its head out from time to time. remember, each function acts as an individual part of a team, not as an individual entity. all this to say, in an ENFP for my sake, Te (tertiary) isn't the same as Te (dominant) in an ENTJ. The Te filters through Ne and Fi in an ENFP, so though the basic idea of Te is the same, it is used and shows itself in a very different way.

    pardon the random stream of thought lol hope it makes sense
    so would you say that the tertiary Te in an ENFP is only there in so much as to do what Ne and Fi need it to do?

    ex:
    Te is used by the ENFP to argue for what their Fi tells them.
    Te is used by the INTJ to argue for what their Ni tells them.
    Te is used by the ENTJ to make everything as efficient as possible in pursuit of goals.

    all of that relates to a conscious purpose, while the INFP Te is only there to cause grief?

    Relate this Fi:
    Fi is used by INFP to make everything as harmonious with inner values as possible.
    Fi is used by the ENFP to guide Ne in what is important to values
    Fi is used by INTJs to relieve the blind spots of Ni/Te in relation to their inner values

    all of that relates to conscious purpose, while Fi in the ENTJ mainly causes grief?

    I know i am oversimplifying, but I often grasp best when I oversimplify to begin with and learn to add flexibility later.


    ENTJ
    As other inferior functions {4th}, it has only a rudimentary awareness of context, amount or degree...Indiscretions of indulgence are likely an expression of the unconscious vengeance of the inferior...When overdone or taken too seriously, Fi turned outward often becomes maudlin or melodramatic.
    INTJ
    Feeling has a modest inner room, two doors down from the Most Imminent iNtuition. It doesn't get out much, but lends its influence on behalf of causes which are Good and Worthy and Humane. We may catch a glimpse of it in the unspoken attitude of good will, or the gracious smile or nod. Some question the existence of Feeling in this type, yet its unseen balance to Thinking is a cardinal dimension in the full measure of the INTJ's soul.

  4. #34
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    ok the way i see Te in an ENFP is like this (ive used this analogy before, probably too much): Ne and Fi are two scholars that both have expertise in different fields and speak two different languages. Te is a translator that helps Ne and Fi communicate and it has Si helping direct.

    maybe a better analogy: Ne receives information, Fi decides what to do with that information and Te is a structure to give Fi foundation. with that foundation created by Fi, the ENFP will have something to build off of. they can then layer ideas on top of older ideas etc. thats a very quick and dirty analogy (both are) but Te lends structure to the fairly unstructured ENFP.

    ive noticed many emotionally unintelligent ENFPs (they tend to not have a well developed tertiary) who have almost a split between the first two functions. they will go from extreme Ne goofyness to extreme Fi introspection and seriousness. they will have great little ideas but they cant seem to pull them all together into one big idea because of that lack of grounding. this is a reason that an INTJ is a good mate for an ENFP...grounding. this refers back to the wise scholars analogy where the Ne and Fi are able to talk fluidly together with the help of Te.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...
    Acting like nothing affects me emotionally, trying to push emotion out of reasoning, dissociating from things, feeling 'alienated', rebelling with my identity, my feelings theyre chaotic and lots of the time i cant really tell what im feeling or why...

    i shield myself from strong emotions, and in effect i look for intensity..

    frustration comes from 'goddamnit, the process is held back because these pesty emotions interfere>D'

    and. i overreact. :P
    bruised and battered ENTJ sx/sp/so 8w9
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  6. #36
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    I have found that I usually deal with feelings in one of two ways. If it is a negative feeling it is either ignored or logically broken down thus removing the feeling altogether. If I can understand something it does not bother me too much. When dealing with positive feelings I just try and ride the wave and enjoy it while it is there. I guess thats three ways.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    I wrote a poem yesterday...which helped me to understand/grasp (the nature of) what I was feeling. So there.

    Fi seems to work with Ni for me, making me feel very deeply, but in a non-concrete or person-oriented way. It's a flow, yeah, and you have to ride it and it's definitely introverted.

    As for the judging aspect, I've noticed I can get exessively upset about injustice, unfairness, unfair representations, lies...but again, about the concept of it, the idea of it, not the result. My strongest reactions occur when I am the victim of the injustice. Otherwise I'll be empathic, but not indignant.

    Speaking of empathy, an example: I will get upset when people don't make the effort to talk to a new person that's introduced into the group (a boyfriend of a girl in our group of friends, for example) and the new person is standing around in silence, but I thinks it stems from the fact that *I* wouldn't want to be in his situation, because it violates my principles, my ideas of "ideal" human interaction (and as an INTJ such situations used to be particularly difficult). I can put myself into the other person's shoes and live their pain. Now that I mention this, that's probably also what drives me to action - I go up to them and talk because I can sense their distress and it makes me uncomfortable. This process possesses an urgency that I recognise in my ESFP friend and that appears to be much less expressed in my INFJ friend. In that situation, I actually feel bad about/frustrated with the fact that the rest of my friends (except for the ESFP then) remain so apathetic, apparently they don't pick up the feeling.

    I guess it's very subject-oriented despite the fact that it can come across as catering to people, which it is I suppose. This last aspect might also be the reason why I am less "dominant" in a relationship than I am in all the other parts of my life. I think that this is something that other INTJs have mentioned as well.
    Fourth-ded.

    Except I wrote my poem this morning.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    NTJs: How does Fi manifest in your type? Both examples and just random musings would work...
    Feeling nothing/anesthized for a while then suddenly being srprised by some kind of intense emotion, not being in touch with it..
    I'll never be fully aware of what I'm feeling all the time, it just dies away into the background, and rationale plays the lead.
    It's true what they say about the rational ENTJ (like the ESTJ) being all serious and fully hooked on reason, but then a cat runs out on the streets, and who's the one to save the cat? The big bad ExTJ
    Inferior Fi brings deep-seated feelings values to our black-and-white reason; it's mercy and protectiveness.. in a naieve way, wich makes it kinda sweet I guess

    Inside is an ISFP 4w3... innocent like a child

    Fi as the inferior (last) function means that it's hard to have and/or express affection; I can be feeling love for someone so intense, yet no matter how I try, I cannot express it, and I'll just pat you on the shoulder with lots of effort... yet on rare occasions, the feelings are freed, and there's lots of affection. But it's very raw, childlike even.
    So that's another point: there's always this feeling trapped inside that cannot be fully expressed, and it feels like a cage.
    I'm drawn to romanticism, romantic art; the kind that is inbetween fantasy and reality, because of this caged feeling
    bruised and battered ENTJ sx/sp/so 8w9
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    http://leonardolestat.mypersonality.info

    (I'm secretly ENxP, but don't tell anyone)

    "Mother, I love you, I never meant to hit you over the head with that shovel."

  9. #39
    Te > Fi > Ni Shaula's Avatar
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    Fi seems to work with Ni for me, making me feel very deeply, but in a non-concrete or person-oriented way. It's a flow, yeah, and you have to ride it and it's definitely introverted.

    As for the judging aspect, I've noticed I can get exessively upset about injustice, unfairness, unfair representations, lies...but again, about the concept of it, the idea of it, not the result. My strongest reactions occur when I am the victim of the injustice. Otherwise I'll be empathic, but not indignant.
    I too can relate to that. Fi mostly keeps me out of trouble.
    Is not to be held accuntable for peeling errors.

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