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  1. #71
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    Now, I don't personally see opposing viewpoints as challenging my position. A challenge to me looks more like someone degrading my personal character. So, do most ENTJs see an alternate viewpoint as insubordination? Because I see a mixed set of rules - you want people around you that you can't push around, for the sake of respecting them, but you also don't like it when others won't acquiesce to your wishes?
    Insubordination seems like an adequate name for it. And we don't want pushovers I think. Not as friends anyway. Maybe as underlings. But I do believe that many of us are kind of narrowed in on "logic" thinking, and it causes trouble when arguing a point with someone that doesn't seem to get it. And we don't want people around who can't see things our way at some level. I believe it is sheer arrogance


    Explain this laziness thing, because all of the NTJ's I have in my life are stricken with that, even to the point of telling me , " Oh I laid on the couch on my face for a week because I couldn't be bothered. " or " I would have called you last night but the phone was on the table and I didn't want to move." lol
    I believe that we're dormant about 60% of the time, and the rest we're really, really efficient. I get totally exhausted doing menial tasks, also. It's not because i'm some megalomaniac or narcissistic. It just kills my energy to do the dishes etc. There are loads of more important stuff to put energy into.
    Same with doing stuff that is pointless. I just can't do it and feel good about it. Like christmas stuff, wrapping presents etc. And I totally hate flowers. Not growing ones, but bouquettes. They just die anyway, and leaves a bunch of trash.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #72
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    yeah I totally have issues with pointlessness too. that's where my SP friends come in handy. They tell me "It's not pointless. The point is that you ENJOY it. By refusing to enjoy it, you MAKE it pointless."

    Ha, good old SP's eh?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  3. #73
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    I can't stand that way of viewing things, either

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #74
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    well, they drag me along and I'm like dude this is so pointless and they're like, quit being negative and just go with the moment, and I'm like but srsly, this is pointless... and they're like, c'mon, you'll love it once you do it.

    And I'm like dude, she's just gonna rip the wrapping off anyway and throw it away. Logical argument, environmental issues, etc. And they're like yeah, but it's part of the Fun.

    But... it can be momentarily gratifying if they DO pause to notice the wrapping and say what a good job you did of it. Momentarily. Before I start hating myself for being so shallow and easily sold
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  5. #75
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    actually I don't see disagreements or different points of view as challenges either... I see 'em as opportunities.

    But then, possibly second only to ESTP, I'm the archetypal opportunist.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  6. #76
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Recognize that a lot. All of it.
    Another weird thing I just thought of, speaking about presents. Why on earth would it be "the thought that counts" !?? It's what you bloody get that counts.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #77
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    Sorry dude, you're on yer own with that one... it's the thought that counts. Totally.

    With me, mainly cos there just isn't anything I want. Or at least, nothing I could live with someone having taken food out their kids' mouths to get for me. Et cetera. Just buy me a pint, that'll do me. Seven or eight of those and it's a very happy birthday
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #78
    Senior Member Lucifer's Avatar
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    The problem with arguing with us is that, when you disagree with us, it is extremely personnal, because we only say things that we know are true (whether they are true or not is academic). So it goes beyond having a discussion onto deadly ground for other types. War as Jesus has often said.

    I can only have really good discussions with NT's, so I can actually understand where they are coming from, because they can actually back up what they say.

    What makes us good leaders is we can listen to reason and real points, but when it comes down to it we will fight to the death, and we'll be the first into the maw.
    This world is mine - in time.

  9. #79
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Well said, Lucifer. You could be a storyteller.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  10. #80
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    actually I don't see disagreements or different points of view as challenges either... I see 'em as opportunities.

    But then, possibly second only to ESTP, I'm the archetypal opportunist.
    HAHA! Same here. I see a thoughtfully laid out counterpoint as extremely interesting. Not that you'll be changing my mind, but it does breed opportunity for learning something worthwhile.

    And I enjoy displays of intellect, if the arguments have depth and validity, meaning I'm not having to listen to someone droning on about things that have no relevance.

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