[ENTJ] How do ENTJs become likeable and less threatening to others?

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Merged with ENTJ domination unneeded.

 

[ptgatsby]

Human emotion should not be used for rational decision making, just like you shouldn't think about maximizing utility during sex but just do what feels right.

I think most women would encourage maximum utility

(I also don't suggest applying "just getting things done" to sex)

 

[IlyaK1986]

I think most women would encourage maximum utility

(I also don't suggest applying "just getting things done" to sex)

Okay, fine, getting *people* done? Fine it was a bad analogy. Us ENTJs are bad with delivery. Just look at Hank Paulson!

 

[FDG]

I think most women would encourage maximum utility

(I also don't suggest applying "just getting things done" to sex)

Likely maximizing utility is exclusively reached by doing what feels right, taking into account the positive feedback created by female's responses to a male maximizing utility.

 

[ajblaise]

Chill out and maybe pick up a weed habit, that should help.

 

[ptgatsby]

Likely maximizing utility is exclusively reached by doing what feels right, taking into account the positive feedback created by female's responses to a male maximizing utility.

Absolutely. I'm positive that ENTJs let women come first.

(The comment also meant to be read as "I'm pretty sure guys just doing what feels good for them does not tend to be as effective".)

Also - ENTJs, humor is not a challenge. FYI.

(Well, ok, sometimes it is. Meh!)

 

[IlyaK1986]

Honestly, drop it. It was a bad analogy.

 

[htb]

I've gone through her entire blog (several days worth of reading) and wholeheartedly identify with the xNTJ female-who-knew-she-wanted-a-family mixed with experience-of-death-trauma-making-you-more-people-oriented-ness. That and she's posted on the fact that she's an ENTJ and seems familiar even with some of the nuances of the MBTI. I'm pretty sure if you read the exact link to the post I referenced, you'll see the Te dom.

The post to which you linked was anecdotal and figurative only in a conventional, axiomatic sense; otherwise concrete, like an intelligent sensor's; and tawdry with details that permeate Trunk's weblog. And her writing -- is this less obvious to women? -- reads like a soap opera. Heavy on interpersonal operation, not so much on conceptual frameworks.

What you call a fact is a claim, even if it's earnest. Trunk believes she is a certain type. Are ENTJs, or types other than ESTPs, likely to be accused by critics of "expecting your looks and your chutzpah to carry the day"? Maybe. But neither NTs nor Js typically rely on tactics or impression. So taken with other available information, probably not. You may not be familiar with this observation on confusing similarities between types. It immediately came to mind when the blog post, and Trunk's other material, didn't turn out as advertised.

 

[LadyJaye]

I can totally relate to this. If I can't have something, that only makes me want it more. I've gotten obsessive over things I didn't even really want, just because I wanted to 'win'.

My ENTJ friend does this - I've had to shake her loose from so many things that she just clamped down on like a pitbull because it suddenly became about sticking it to someone, that she couldn't allow them to "beat" her. Does the definition of being vanquished change situationally, or is there a general idea of what the parameters are?

I don't know about the other ENTJ's but when i'm critizised I act as if under serious fire, then the "sugar coating" goes straight off, bayonett on, charge!
I can't stand anyone challenging me directly. I will snap and tell the person what I think, wich can be pretty harsh. Then I will hear about it a long time afterwards how awful I am to argue with. Some people call this "steamrolling". Challenges disturbs my balance, and will be evened with the ground if possible. If not possible, I will eventually find a way to get rid of the problem even if I have to get a bloody PhD, write a few books and kill a few people in the process. No but seriously. ENTJ's are "born to lead", even if intellectually suited for this or not we need to be on top. If someone challenges our social position there will be war.

Now, I don't personally see opposing viewpoints as challenging my position. A challenge to me looks more like someone degrading my personal character. So, do most ENTJs see an alternate viewpoint as insubordination? Because I see a mixed set of rules - you want people around you that you can't push around, for the sake of respecting them, but you also don't like it when others won't acquiesce to your wishes?

Trust me, i'm a lazy bastard most of the time, too. ^^ I just think a lot in my lazy state, and then suddenly burst into action. I'm the kind of person who can do a weeks studies in five or six hours if I get to be alone and concentrate. I could never, ever maintain that speed for an entire day, but it means that I can spend more time doing things that I like, so it's a thing that have evolved over time.

Explain this laziness thing, because all of the NTJ's I have in my life are stricken with that, even to the point of telling me , " Oh I laid on the couch on my face for a week because I couldn't be bothered. " or " I would have called you last night but the phone was on the table and I didn't want to move." lol

 

[substitute]

Likely maximizing utility is exclusively reached by doing what feels right, taking into account the positive feedback created by female's responses to a male maximizing utility.

Gosh. You old smoothie!


(I was thinking the answer to the title question was "they grow up", but it didn't deserve a whole post)

 

[Valiant]

Now, I don't personally see opposing viewpoints as challenging my position. A challenge to me looks more like someone degrading my personal character. So, do most ENTJs see an alternate viewpoint as insubordination? Because I see a mixed set of rules - you want people around you that you can't push around, for the sake of respecting them, but you also don't like it when others won't acquiesce to your wishes?

Insubordination seems like an adequate name for it. And we don't want pushovers I think. Not as friends anyway. Maybe as underlings. But I do believe that many of us are kind of narrowed in on "logic" thinking, and it causes trouble when arguing a point with someone that doesn't seem to get it. And we don't want people around who can't see things our way at some level. I believe it is sheer arrogance

Explain this laziness thing, because all of the NTJ's I have in my life are stricken with that, even to the point of telling me , " Oh I laid on the couch on my face for a week because I couldn't be bothered. " or " I would have called you last night but the phone was on the table and I didn't want to move." lol

I believe that we're dormant about 60% of the time, and the rest we're really, really efficient. I get totally exhausted doing menial tasks, also. It's not because i'm some megalomaniac or narcissistic. It just kills my energy to do the dishes etc. There are loads of more important stuff to put energy into.
Same with doing stuff that is pointless. I just can't do it and feel good about it. Like christmas stuff, wrapping presents etc. And I totally hate flowers. Not growing ones, but bouquettes. They just die anyway, and leaves a bunch of trash.

 

[substitute]

yeah I totally have issues with pointlessness too. that's where my SP friends come in handy. They tell me "It's not pointless. The point is that you ENJOY it. By refusing to enjoy it, you MAKE it pointless."

Ha, good old SP's eh?

 

[Valiant]

I can't stand that way of viewing things, either

 

[substitute]

well, they drag me along and I'm like dude this is so pointless and they're like, quit being negative and just go with the moment, and I'm like but srsly, this is pointless... and they're like, c'mon, you'll love it once you do it.

And I'm like dude, she's just gonna rip the wrapping off anyway and throw it away. Logical argument, environmental issues, etc. And they're like yeah, but it's part of the Fun.

But... it can be momentarily gratifying if they DO pause to notice the wrapping and say what a good job you did of it. Momentarily. Before I start hating myself for being so shallow and easily sold

 

[substitute]

actually I don't see disagreements or different points of view as challenges either... I see 'em as opportunities.

But then, possibly second only to ESTP, I'm the archetypal opportunist.

 

[Valiant]

Recognize that a lot. All of it.
Another weird thing I just thought of, speaking about presents. Why on earth would it be "the thought that counts" !?? It's what you bloody get that counts.

 

[substitute]

Sorry dude, you're on yer own with that one... it's the thought that counts. Totally.

With me, mainly cos there just isn't anything I want. Or at least, nothing I could live with someone having taken food out their kids' mouths to get for me. Et cetera. Just buy me a pint, that'll do me. Seven or eight of those and it's a very happy birthday

 

[Lucifer]

The problem with arguing with us is that, when you disagree with us, it is extremely personnal, because we only say things that we know are true (whether they are true or not is academic). So it goes beyond having a discussion onto deadly ground for other types. War as Jesus has often said.

I can only have really good discussions with NT's, so I can actually understand where they are coming from, because they can actually back up what they say.

What makes us good leaders is we can listen to reason and real points, but when it comes down to it we will fight to the death, and we'll be the first into the maw.

 

[Valiant]

Well said, Lucifer. You could be a storyteller.

 

[LadyJaye]

actually I don't see disagreements or different points of view as challenges either... I see 'em as opportunities.

But then, possibly second only to ESTP, I'm the archetypal opportunist.

HAHA! Same here. I see a thoughtfully laid out counterpoint as extremely interesting. Not that you'll be changing my mind, but it does breed opportunity for learning something worthwhile.

And I enjoy displays of intellect, if the arguments have depth and validity, meaning I'm not having to listen to someone droning on about things that have no relevance.