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  1. #181
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    The hidden truth is that deep down ENTJ's *want* to be likeable. I have found that (personally) I go through phases where I enjoy being social and attracting attention but - it is usually as a result of having experienced something that creates a need for me to prove myself in some way.. (for instance, if something negative or emotionally difficult happens to me, or if I somehow scare somebody away with my behavior.) I use social activities as an outlet to become more healthy when I am not. I sometimes think that we are unlikeable because we don't give ourselves enough play time. We are always too busy "doing" stuff, and sometimes treat people like they are "getting in the way" of our goals. (which they usually are.. lol).
    I can completely relate to that.

  2. #182
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    The hidden truth is that deep down ENTJ's *want* to be likeable. I have found that (personally) I go through phases where I enjoy being social and attracting attention but - it is usually as a result of having experienced something that creates a need for me to prove myself in some way.. (for instance, if something negative or emotionally difficult happens to me, or if I somehow scare somebody away with my behavior.) I use social activities as an outlet to become more healthy when I am not. I sometimes think that we are unlikeable because we don't give ourselves enough play time. We are always too busy "doing" stuff, and sometimes treat people like they are "getting in the way" of our goals. (which they usually are.. lol)

    I have no idea how old you guys and gals are but I'm going to turn 40 next year. It doesn't get any easier, believe me. I am finding more and more often that I need someone to understand me emotionally and also to provide me with flexible options when I get bogged down in details. I think one of the great catch 22's about being an ENTJ is that if they are in supportive relationships and are not feeling like their world is collapsing, then they can do amazing things. But to get to that point is very difficult because one has to learn to be a little less selfish, and a little less of a dictator to attract the right person.
    After reading your post, I have a somewhat clear image of an entj guy before me now and the traits you described would be equal problems I see. Especially the ego thing and controlling tyran part is a thing I fear the most too. I have even after 5 years of relationship with my gf not managed to ever completly give of control. Ok 5 years aint much but if you try to do something for 5 years and failed it's much. It's difficult but I think staying naive to many things in life and not to form a too narrow minded image about them just for the sake of having an opinion and staying open in your thoughts and flexible in your opinion, maybe one day, one glorrious day, I can walk out the front door, forget my keys and then just laugh about it, instead of being angry with myself.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #183
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    maybe one day, one glorrious day, I can walk out the front door, forget my keys and then just laugh about it, instead of being angry with myself.
    You will. Esp after you've forgotten your keys in your car 30+. : )

  4. #184
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Hehe . Well gladly I never tend to forget my keys but I tend to delve on analyzing the past and get frustrated with turns in my life where I overcomplicated things. Later you always now it better when you have the life experience, for example I tend to get frustrated about having needed 2 more years of study in University than you need on average. I rather spent the time to do alot of partieing and tho this does say nothing about your quality as a graduate later and happens so often that it is no real problem, it just bugs me because it is a flaw where otherwise could be perfection. I guess tho this's primarily an entp problem, it translates with the things you do in the present to a sometimes clinical demand to be in control and if you have a girlfriend that tends to get herself in troubles often because she's unconcentrated you have to bridge a serious canyon between on the one side caring for everything and managing everything, while on the other side you need to be able to let loose aswell and put the trust of your self into your girls hands.

    I've become no master at this yet
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #185
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    the only solution is bondage
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #186
    Giggity Vie's Avatar
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    I need to learn to be more p.

  7. #187
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    The hidden truth is that deep down ENTJ's *want* to be likeable. I have found that (personally) I go through phases where I enjoy being social and attracting attention but - it is usually as a result of having experienced something that creates a need for me to prove myself in some way.. (for instance, if something negative or emotionally difficult happens to me, or if I somehow scare somebody away with my behavior.) I use social activities as an outlet to become more healthy when I am not. I sometimes think that we are unlikeable because we don't give ourselves enough play time. We are always too busy "doing" stuff, and sometimes treat people like they are "getting in the way" of our goals. (which they usually are.. lol)

    I have no idea how old you guys and gals are but I'm going to turn 40 next year. It doesn't get any easier, believe me. I am finding more and more often that I need someone to understand me emotionally and also to provide me with flexible options when I get bogged down in details. I think one of the great catch 22's about being an ENTJ is that if they are in supportive relationships and are not feeling like their world is collapsing, then they can do amazing things. But to get to that point is very difficult because one has to learn to be a little less selfish, and a little less of a dictator to attract the right person.
    See the end part of that I have tried, but it makes me feel a little claustrophobic, like at any moment I might slip and show my true colors. This would completely shock someone when I fall back into my default. So I just kind of put it all out there, and let others decide if that is something they are capable of handling or not. Then I get to pleasantly surprise people, by not being an ass every now and then.

    I think if I wanted to really address the issue in a way that is both comfortable and sensible to me, I would have to work on my ability to trust the capabilities of others and how they prioritize. That seems like the only thing that would get me in harmony with others, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

    Since most people don't think like me, and I am very specific in my vision of what should be happening for the best result possible, it is easier to just bypass others, and cut to the chase.

    Idk, all I do know is that if I watch one more person become exhausted under me, start to distrust me, or down right fear me, as though I am someone more or less capable than I am, or as though my personality is more significant than my ideas, I am going to give up people for good.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by You'reWrongI'mRight View Post
    That sounds extremely ESTJ to me.

    As an eNTJ...

    I don't take shiz from anyone, but that does not mean I can not be nice and proper when I communicate.

    I'm a likable and sociable person. When I am meeting someone, esp for the first time, I make sure that I do it with utter manners. I will hold back on the bluntness, which others might see as arrogant, rude, and "too honest".
    Having someone like you, appreciate you, and feel comfortable around you is VERY important. Ease them in on the crazy, it makes life so much easier. Especially for a work/school environment; having a good image, can go a long way with getting people to do what they're told to do. People like to please those they look up to, respect, and like.
    Socializing is no necessary by any means, it is merely a tool that is justifiable by result.

    I don't believe I am the authority if i'm in a group; in fact, half the time, I don't want to take on the position of leader, because a lot of people do associate being a leader with being an authority, and giving them complete control instead of becoming one unit.

    I don't turn people's ideas down as I see fit, I work with them, and they associate me with a leader because I help them organize, schedule, and get the tasks-at-hand done the right way, with minimal presentation of issues.

    All that said, I don't put up with incompetence, will kick you in the shins; every now and then my hot-tempered side gets the best of me after I see a lot of mistakes being made. I won't yell, but I will burn a whole into your soul.
    It sounds like you don't know much about the MBTI, then.

    As an ENTJ, the only thing that matters is competence. You don't come across as ENTJ at all if you say you don't like being a leader - you should question your own typing for saying things as blatantly in contradiction with the description of your type.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Most people, the longer they get to know us, will start to think we are morally corrupt (since there is no social nicety we will NOT break if need be), manipulative (since we will always spin a situation to incorporate our favor as well, not that we disregard others, but it runs a history of always looking like we are getting our way. The way I see it, we TOO are getting our way), and sometimes down right mean (since we aren't really sensitive beasts, most of the things that come out of our mouth WE wouldn't consider offensive, so we don't assume anyone would, or they are stupid).

    So, while we may rock an interview, we tend to suck at longevity unless associated with very intelligent or weak people. Those who are smart enough to see past what it looks like we are doing, to what we are actually accomplishing, or those who like to follow a strong lead, and not ask too many questions....
    I agree. I couldn't care less about morality as it is commonly defined. Some people that appear "good" cause with actions the worst consequences for others and a system.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    The hidden truth is that deep down ENTJ's *want* to be likeable. I have found that (personally) I go through phases where I enjoy being social and attracting attention but - it is usually as a result of having experienced something that creates a need for me to prove myself in some way.. (for instance, if something negative or emotionally difficult happens to me, or if I somehow scare somebody away with my behavior.) I use social activities as an outlet to become more healthy when I am not. I sometimes think that we are unlikeable because we don't give ourselves enough play time. We are always too busy "doing" stuff, and sometimes treat people like they are "getting in the way" of our goals. (which they usually are.. lol)

    I have no idea how old you guys and gals are but I'm going to turn 40 next year. It doesn't get any easier, believe me. I am finding more and more often that I need someone to understand me emotionally and also to provide me with flexible options when I get bogged down in details. I think one of the great catch 22's about being an ENTJ is that if they are in supportive relationships and are not feeling like their world is collapsing, then they can do amazing things. But to get to that point is very difficult because one has to learn to be a little less selfish, and a little less of a dictator to attract the right person.
    You say this because you are emotionally unstable (SLOAN Limbic?), but this is not normal or typical of ENTJ's.

    It sounds like you are insecure if you want to be liked. You're just going to spend your time second guessing yourself. Just go out there, say what you think, and tell people to get screwed if they don't like hearing the truth.

  9. #189
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon View Post
    As an ENTJ, the only thing that matters is competence.
    From a strictly utilitarian point of view:

    That depends on the setting, doesn't it. It might be argued that being funny and somewhat diplomatic can be a competence required in a social setting. On the contrary, I do agree that if you're working it's generally better to focus on competence; however you can't be excessively rude/blunt otherwise you might hinder the performance of someone very competent but more emotionally touchy.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #190
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon View Post
    You say this because you are emotionally unstable (SLOAN Limbic?), but this is not normal or typical of ENTJ's.

    It sounds like you are insecure if you want to be liked. You're just going to spend your time second guessing yourself. Just go out there, say what you think, and tell people to get screwed if they don't like hearing the truth.
    I believe my sig says SLOEI / Inquisitive.. where did you read that? I was referring not to emotional instability but being "in touch" with my emotions. You can't just go for your entire life ignoring your own emotions. At some point you have to reach into yourself and understand your inner motivations from a non-detached standpoint. Otherwise you don't grow.

    Also, nice judgement call on the second part - for the most part I do say what I think. And if I am insecure, what's it to you? Sometimes being an ass and screwing people over is not the best way to respond to the situation. A mature ENTJ will realize this and try not overreact, unless the pressure is really on. Telling people the "truth" under the guise of authoritarianism doesn't always work in your favor as an ENTJ. Sometimes it works but more often than not you isolate yourself.
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