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[NT] NTs, what do you honestly think about other temperaments in relation to yours?

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,223
Please go back and read my last post, the part about counsellors. This above statement proves my point exactly. Logic is defined as pure reason and facts and is universal. The logic you deal with is more of a persnal one. Dealing with human behaviour (which is not always logical) and is the use of feeling and logic, NF, instead of logic and reason, NT.

Why couldn't you think of human behavior in terms of probabilities, frameworks, problem solving, etc.?

"Pure reason" <-- what does this even mean? A bunch of if/then statements? I don't see why you couldn't apply that to human behavior. It'd be pretty complex, sure, but it's not like humans are physically made up of anything different than any other object.

Yes, it's true that I focus some of my logical analyses on people (making inferences about what their assumptions are, etc.) But so do NTs. I probably focus on people more than most NTs, but definitely not all of them.

I excel more at math, computer science, physics, etc. than in other subjects in school. I have a math mind. (= a logical mind?)

I've also been typed as INTP multiple times.

My point is essentially that MBTI is quite a limited system, and people should be careful generalizing type characteristics.
 

Lucifer

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
246
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Alright I didn't want to do this but here we go.

Logic: a system of reasoning
Reason: the capacity for rational thought or inference or discrimination
Feeling: the preference for using valuing during the decision making process

Logic is a system of reasoning not reasoning itself. NT's combine logic and reason for a very impersonnal assessment of how things including people work. And yes Nt's do have the ability to use feeling to read people but are much more comfortable breaking things down into simple forms.

The NF uses logic in a similar but different process and combines feeling with it for a more personnal approach. Such as how you asked if NT could substitute people in as logic, which might be natural for you, using feeling to find, what you would call a more exact answer a balance so to speak. We would call it becoming to personnal. You see blue and yellow, so to get a balanced and fair ansswer you come up with green. Where an NT cannot do that.

Do not pull out the "ive typed as INTP" deal dissonance. For Iif thats what you are you would not have refuted my first statement, and now you are using it as a defence. If you are unsure, take the human metrics test and sit down and really think about your answers, my final one took me about an hour.
And I describe myself as ENTJ.

Finally, yes I do understand it is not concrete because simply being labelled could caue a person to imitate another or rebel against he label. But it is a reasonable approach to the temperments of the human mind.
 

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,223
Alright I didn't want to do this but here we go.

Logic: a system of reasoning
Reason: the capacity for rational thought or inference or discrimination
Feeling: the preference for using valuing during the decision making process

Logic is a system of reasoning not reasoning itself. NT's combine logic and reason for a very impersonnal assessment of how things including people work. And yes Nt's do have the ability to use feeling to read people but are much more comfortable breaking things down into simple forms.

The NF uses logic in a similar but different process and combines feeling with it for a more personnal approach. Such as how you asked if NT could substitute people in as logic, which might be natural for you, using feeling to find, what you would call a more exact answer a balance so to speak. We would call it becoming to personnal. You see blue and yellow, so to get a balanced and fair ansswer you come up with green. Where an NT cannot do that.

NTs can use Feeling just as well as I can use Thinking. They can achieve balance just as easily.

Although, since you're an ETJ, you have inferior Feeling. Your Thinking and Feeling are as separated as possible in the system (in 1st and 4th position). My Feeling is in 2nd position, and my Thinking is in 3rd, which means it's probably easier for me to find a balance.

The grey area between NFs and NTs is more of an issue when talking about INJs and ENPs (since they have 2nd and 3rd position judgment, as opposed to 1st and 4th in ENJs and ITPs).

Do not pull out the "ive typed as INTP" deal dissonance. For Iif thats what you are you would not have refuted my first statement, and now you are using it as a defence.

My point in bringing that up was that I exhibit traits that would be called NT traits -- I'm not using it as defense, I'm using it to show the bounds of the MBTI system.

If you are unsure, take the human metrics test and sit down and really think about your answers, my final one took me about an hour.
And I describe myself as ENTJ.

I have, and I test as INTP. I'm not an INTP, though -- I just happen to be a very T F. And a very P J. The tests can't accurately discern types for balanced people.

Finally, yes I do understand it is not concrete because simply being labelled could caue a person to imitate another or rebel against he label. But it is a reasonable approach to the temperments of the human mind.

I see what you're saying. NTs are generally better than NFs at logic. I agree with that statement.

Here's what I have a problem with:

They are merely people, they cannot be more then that. NT's can be truth therefore it can be challenging to communicate with people when they do not understand truth.

Outside of NT there is no logic other then that of the NF which is merely chaos and in itself is logical. The other two temperments are just wannabes of NT or NF or are in limbo.

I don't think the condescending attitude makes much sense. I've yet to be "stumped" by an NT's logic ever in my life.
 

Lucifer

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
246
MBTI Type
ENTJ
They are my views on the system. the MBTI made two extremes, the rationals and the idealists, and then gave them two children. althought it is balanced, like we have talked about it is still not perfect and sinc it was created by people it shouldn't be.

Yes I am very condescending to the few things that appear to me to be of little importance, which is Artisans and Guardians, who are like the canvas idealists and rationals paint on.
 

INA

now! in shell form
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
3,195
MBTI Type
intp
How I do view:
NTs vs. NFs: Pretty much OK, I just hate trying to argue with them, because generally they suck at logic. They can't follow a straight line, they always (more or less) mix up emotions and fact.

NTs vs. SPs: Usually ok, though the Feelers are usually a bit annoying.

NTs vs. SJs: Can only put up with ISTJ's. They complete me, and usually have a form of logic that I respect. The rest of the SJ's annoy me, and I would rather die than have one in a position over me. I loathe law-abiding traditional twits.

I agree with a lot of this.
An NT - NF argument:

NF: 2+2 = 4. It follows that you need to adopt my fuzzy feelings about that the transcendence of unicorns.
NT (exasperated): But that has NOTHING to do with it.
NF (after sighing): OMGWTF! YOU ARE AN UNHEALTHY xNTx!
NT (muttering): Feelers . . . :dont:


I actually like the more laidback SJs *half* the time.
SPs - I have a weird thing where I'm drawn to the ISPs - in a weird protective way, but I feel that they think I am evil or there's some other kind of way we don't get each other.
 

Jack Flak

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Jul 17, 2008
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MBTI Type
type
The NT Private Forum appears to have experienced an ERROR between idea and execution... New Topic: "Should NT Private Forums be private?"
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
...
How do you view:
NTs vs. NFs?
I like NFs for the most part because the ones I know are nice, intelligent, kind-hearted. Personally, I prefer a conversation with an N because we are likely going to discuss something not skin-deep. My INFP sister and I both agree that having a conversation with an S can be a shallow experience.

NTs vs. SPs?
I am a very serious person and relate to SPs the least. What's weird though is I was attracted to an SP and we've been married for 26 years. We have an SP son and I had such a hard time learning to understand and accept that type, especially trying to see the positive qualities of that type, mostly because it was so opposite of me and what I believed people are supposed to believe and the way we're supposed to behave. As I said, I had to learn to appreciate him, but now that I have, he is very dear to me. If it wasn't for my SP son, I would hardly ever have any excitement in my life. :D ("Mom, can I ride my bike off the roof?")

NTs vs. SJs?
I respect SJs. I admire their discipline. I hate the hoops they make me jump through. I frequently wish I could be more like them.

You didn't ask about NTs, but I'd like to address that:
INTP - the type I am most likely to distrust.
ENTP - the type I most easily adore.
INTJ - the type I feel most compassion for, since I know how hard it is to be an INTJ.
ENTJ - the type that feels most like a steamroller, but who I also admire.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
NT vs NF.
Love them to bits. Mostly uncomplicated people with certainty behind their principles (I realise I'm crossing types here but I care not about the standard nomenclature). I especially love ENFJs.. even when they're on a mission and listening to none but themselves. INFPs can be a pain if they get upset and ENFPs do my sweed when they're upset but when on an even keel I like all NF types without exception. Now loving all NFs themselves... well that's a different kettle of fish.

I think the only type of NF that causes me problems is INFJs and that's only because usually I can't get to the bit behind the thinking for all the walls, deep moats and everything else. I hate talking to facades!

NT vs SP.
These types are great. Free thinkers unworried by how things interconnect, at least from my perspective. Of course they can also be a pain especially with the tendancy to repeat the same description instead of answering a question like "what on earth are you on about?"

NT vs SJ.
Well the FSJs I have little problem with.. once I understand how their values play out. After that it's a simple matter of conforming and not over stepping the boundaries. They can be tiring though. ISTJs I also enjoy the company of.. but possibly only because I only know one and he's smart enough to wonder why I disagree... even if he has sworn off discussing things with me in the past because I kept persuading him.

ESTJs are both my bane and my current employers. I basically absorb their criticisms and try to get along. It's not always possible but I find I do get respect for standing my ground even if they can't see why it's worthwhile to do so. I think proving them wrong also does me some good.
 

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
6,743
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx
Yes I am very condescending to the few things that appear to me to be of little importance, which is Artisans and Guardians, who are like the canvas idealists and rationals paint on.

I LOVE THE WAY YOU PAINT ON ME BABY
 

colmena

señor member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
1,549
MBTI Type
INXP
Staunch NTs amuse me. HarHarHar.

Is there a logic test available? I'm OK with logic, it's insight that escapes me at times.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Ah yes, dissonance, but we shant forget the wonders of intuitive collectivism. The entire board can become fully coherent (as appears often to be the case with you, and probably, equally as often with myself) once sufficient factors are accounted for where prior to that, it seemed like nothing more than banality.
It's a learned skill -- not all intuitives can achieve this sudden but thorough understanding, but it certainly happens.

I've found myself dicking around in a video game doing a piss-poor job, when all of a sudden, as if by magic, everything snaps together cohesively and everything is explained suddenly, whereupon I begin to nuke ass and destroy my opponents.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
It helps me to nuke ass.
You're damned right it's sweet.


How are you posting here?
 

Ism

New member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
1,097
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w1
NF-NT
I don't think I've ever really got to know one, actually. Not on a deeper level, at least. I think there is one girl in my Spanish class who's like the NF type. She seems really kind, so I think I'd be able to get along well enough with the whole group as long as I don't feel as if I'm walking on eggshells.

NT-NT
Never got to know one well enough. There may be a few hanging around school, and I probably spoke with them and stuff. There was one guy who became a friend, but I didn't really know what to do with him when he went into debate mode or anything outside of the typical "How was your weekend?" thing. Though, we did occasionally toss a few hypothetical scenarios between the two of us and other kids at the lunch table. They weren't anything particularly profound, however. Overall, it's kind of akward when interacting with them, assuming they're like the NT type, I think. At least it is in my mind.

SP-NT
I have a few acquaintances/friends of the sort. They're cool enough, but I don't talk to them very often inside or outside of school.

SJ-NT
You know, funnily enough, I think I know how to work with these guys the most, and am able to get to know them more. I think one of my closer friends is an sJ, and the rest don't mind me much at all, really. It's probably because of my mom, who shared similar personality traits with them. I only really hung around with her, and spent most of my time with her, and not nearly as much with anyone else outside of a formal atmosphere. Through her, I learned how she worked, socially, I guess, and used that as my format for communicating with other people. Or maybe not. I could just be making stuff up.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
For some reason, I've always had trouble with NP types...
 
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