[INTP] INTPs and Success

[Doctor Cringelord]

My INTP Career Journey (Success Story?) – A.J. Drenth – Medium

‘Success,” for those of the INTP personality persuasion, looks starkly different from how it appears to the conventional eye. INTPs have little concern for getting rich or amassing more stuff. As enumerated in my books, The INTP and The INTP Quest, they value money only for its role in procuring certain intangibles viewed as integral to their vision of the good life. Among these intangibles are things like freedom, meaning, purpose, and truth; more freedom, more meaning, more purpose, more truth — this is how the INTP defines success.

Freedom is both a means and an end for the INTP. There is nothing INTPs abhor more than being subjected to the rules and dictates of others, as this precludes them from what they do best: paving their own path. INTPs are neither followers nor collaborators. They are self-driven individualists, deeply committed to following their own interests wherever they may lead. Indeed, having the time and freedom to pursue their own path is one of INTPs’ greatest sources of pleasure and meaning in life. Consequently, they can’t help but want to carve out more time for themselves, which they typically do through minimizing their material needs. Like the proverbial “starving artist,” many are willing to live with next to nothing if it promises more opportunity to do their own thing.

With that said, INTPs obviously need some form of income, which typically means working as an either an employee or entrepreneur. Although most INTPs despise the idea of working for someone else, in many cases, doing so is their most viable option, at least in the short term. While entrepreneurship is always a temptation for INTPs, it is not without its difficulties and drawbacks.

All INTPs dream of making money doing what they love. But before they can authentically do so, they must clarify their identity and their purpose by embarking on a quest of self-discovery. During this phase of discovery, INTPs are typically uncomfortable with the idea of monetizing their work, as the nature of their interests and identity have yet to be sufficiently clarified. They thus adopt a future-oriented mindset in which they expect that their best work (as well its financial rewards) will come later, after they have achieved greater clarity. In the meantime, they strive to carve out as much time as possible for continued exploration and reflection.

INTPs are also quite particular about the manner in which they make a living. They don’t want to sell widgets, no matter how lucrative, but to earn a living doing something that is meaningful and adds real value to the world. Consequently, it is hard to grant greater priority to any of the elements of INTPs’ vision of success and the good life; all are symbiotic and interrelated, and therefore equally essential.

While younger INTPs may lack the life experience required to articulate these matters in the above fashion, those who have exited college and entered the working world will at least have an inchoate sense of what I’m describing. Perhaps more than any other type, INTPs are quick to feel restless and dissatisfied, convinced that there is something better or more important for them to be doing. This sense of being called to something greater serves as the primary driver of their quest.

Thoughts?

 

[Cellmold]

I relate strongly to all the passages, though I claim no INTPship & don't think I ever would (not just because typology is low in my esteem and on the backburner, but also because I think it doesn't fit).

I've often tried to find ways to minimise the amount of time I have to spend doing things at the behest of others, but I was also raised with values of obligation that run in contrast (maybe even contradiction) to this.

I regularly visualise this future where I have enough to be confortable, but not so much that I cannot spend most of my time pursuing projects and ideas that interest me. One of the most painful aspects of my working life so far is how often I have to supress or ignore the itches of my attention that mean I've had a thought I want to follow, in order to 'stay on task'. Talented at being absent minded but having spent so long forcing myself to be a certain way under duress from others (my weakness led me to this I know) means I'm not even certain what is natural to me in nature anymore.

I know on here and off I am seen as Fe-able and judged as such, but I can't tell how much of it is a comforting mask hot-glued for so long that it's become normality & and how much is forced for ease of natvigation from a situation I don't want to be in to one I do want to be in (and where comfort induces a more relaxed state that can be called closer to normal). Not to mention having to spend a lot of time in a very high-energy household and having at least one of my jobs involving large amounts of time spent around people which I'm realising I find very draining.

I'm still moderately young though, so I know there is a lot to understand in terms of my future, myself & what ribbons I want to entangle my potentials in.

PS: This has the 'mash potato' problem; a lot of stuff that could be applied or recognised by many people. Throw it against the wall...some of it will stick.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I relate strongly to all the passages, though I claim no INTPship & don't think I ever would (not just because typology is low in my esteem and on the backburner, but also because I think it doesn't fit).

Same here to the bolded.

I've often tried to find ways to minimise the amount of time I have to spend doing things at the behest of others, but I was also raised with values of obligation that run in contrast (maybe even contradiction) to this.

I regularly visualise this future where I have enough to be confortable, but not so much that I cannot spend most of my time pursuing projects and ideas that interest me. One of the most painful aspects of my working life so far is how often I have to supress or ignore the itches of my attention that mean I've had a thought I want to follow, in order to 'stay on task'. Talented at being absent minded but having spent so long forcing myself to be a certain way under duress from others (my weakness led me to this I know) means I'm not even certain what is natural to me in nature anymore.

I know on here and off I am seen as Fe-able and judged as such, but I can't tell how much of it is a comforting mask hot-glued for so long that it's become normality & and how much is forced for ease of natvigation from a situation I don't want to be in to one I do want to be in (and where comfort induces a more relaxed state that can be called closer to normal).

I'm still moderately young though, so I know there is a lot to understand in terms of my future, myself & what ribbons I want to entangle my potentials in.

PS: This has the 'mash potato' problem; a lot of stuff that could be applied or recognised by many people. Throw it against the wall...some of it will stick.

True, it occurred to me a lot of what he described wasn't specific to one type.

There's a hint of intuitive bias in Drenth's writings. Expanding to other types though, I think it's a sentiment a lot of people will agree with, if not a majority of the population?

I find it interesting to see how different people would spend their money when fantasizing about being rich or winning the lottery. Some will daydream about a gold plated mansion and 10 cars. But what would they actually do with the autonomy from obligation to a drudging job? Others will fantasize about the freedom of being able to pursue their hobbies or passions with. There's no wrong answer, but I tend to fall into the latter category. I just want enough freedom and money to afford to make art/music full time and maybe travel and do things like dive with great whites. I wouldn't need the mansion to do all of that, just a modest, comfortable place to live.

Sorry, I guess this isn't type related.

 

[Cellmold]

I find it interesting to see how different people would spend their money when fantasizing about being rich or winning the lottery. Some will daydream about a gold plated mansion and 10 cars. But what would they actually do with the autonomy from obligation to a drudging job? Others will fantasize about the freedom of being able to pursue their hobbies or passions with. There's no wrong answer, but I tend to fall into the latter category. I just want enough freedom and money to afford to make art/music full time and maybe travel and do things like dive with great whites. I wouldn't need the mansion to do all of that, just a modest, comfortable place to live.

Sorry, I guess this isn't type related.

It's an interesting question to me as well since I often come back to it, triggered off by selling lottery tickets to people who complain to me about having to go back to work.

It's funny when people say "I wish I'd put those numbers in" when what they really mean is "I wish I had a lot of money." But there is so much outside of just having that money, a much broader picture of (as a random example) where it puts you in standing with friends, or rather how it can show you (whether you want it to or not) who can be considered a genuine friend and who is just an opportunist. Or maybe it devalues the acquired because you are no longer working for it, it can be obtained at any moment.

But then this might be where those hobbies, pursuits & interests come into play. Though maybe some never wanted to create, explore & consider, only to be comfortable by acquiring the labours of others.

It's hard to tell this to people who are stuck at the entry level though & and who have had to slog through hard times and destitution to reach some middling point of comfort and security. It's clearly a wider issue linked to what we lose & gain as we develop.

The apparent freedoms of indulgence in childhood (for most) to the constrictions of responsibilities as we get older. Although this is not clear cut, for example childhood often carries a reliance on adults to survive and adulthood's reponsibilities are often pathways to autonomy (albeit an autonomy defined very specifically by social norms). I always felt like there was a certain cast of person who, when observing a child in the dirt, thinks only of how to remove the dirt and the child in order to put in it's place a productive adult and a clean patch of land. There's more shades to this than the analogy provides though. But I see an issue of narrowness in perspective & it's a narrowness that is enforced by the constraints people are born into, with particular regard to the necessity of finance & the jobs that become 'necessary' in order to survive.

But in short, yeah I am also in that latter category. To me it's the best way for good ideas and new avenues to arise. You can't force a meaningful life without occasional release from drudgery.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I know a very successful INTP around age 30. A couple years ago, he started a gardening business which required almost no startup cost. It was quite clever, although I'm sure he got the idea from elsewhere as he is certainly not the first to do so. He found homeowners who had land that they were comfortable lending to him to grow vegetables. He did all the labor, they supplied the land and in return would get a share of the veggies (like a CSA but no cost to them). He would take the remaining crops to farmer's markets for profit. He also started a microgreens business which he was able to sell last year to a local organization. With the profits from that sale, he was able to buy a lawn care/snow removal business and now he has employees and seems to be doing quite well. Very clever guy, I'm quite fond of him (I adore INTPs in general). Anyway, although I don't know his motivations for sure, I do know he is very laid-back and seems to enjoy the simpler things in life, like nature, music, and good friendships. I know he was living with roommates for years during all of this, so I'm assuming he was probably enjoying a less materialistic lifestyle. I know another INTP who volunteers for the fire department as a side job, which obviously isn't lucrative but must give him a sense of purpose/success or he wouldn't do it.

 

[1487610420]

Einstein was a successful patent office clerk

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Einstein was a successful patent officer

He was also a hair stylist and matchmaker of greasy mechanics. And he invented the electric guitar when he lived in Australia.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Vague enough to apply to pretty much anybody

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Vague enough to apply to pretty much anybody

I completely disagree. Many people are motivated by money and material comforts and don't care much for simpler joys or purpose.

 

[anticlimatic]

Cool article Anaximander.

For me at least, career success is almost irrelevant in the shadow of other thoughts, concerns, and motivations. Yes freedom to think is paramount, and some money is necessary for just about everything, but I don't think I could ever consider myself a 'life success' unless I discovered immortality. In 'the game of life' I personally don't care about racking up more points than joe-schmoe before I eventually die, I want to beat the fucking game. Which is probably impossible, but at least we all get to be losers together.

I can say that I am very happy with my career at least, but not that I think it matters much. It's mentally and emotionally rewarding, at the cost of being physically and financially unrewarding, which suits me. I enjoy making sport out of frugality, and I enjoy fresh air and exercise. I get to make a difference in many people's lives by brainstorming and physically executing ways to improve their worlds in ways they couldn't on their own- and they repay me in warmth, appreciation, and admiration (and then their government kindly sends me a check for the trouble).