...In laymen terms, INTJ may be careful in discussing their thoughts, because they may have a vague understanding themselves...
Precisely.
... In my personal estimation, part of an INTJ's "individuality" comes from having attempted countless times to communicate what he has in mind, only to be met with smirky aren't-you-forgettings, what-abouts, and you're-just-assumings. Perhaps other INTJs have had different experiences...
I have experienced this uncomfortable situation countless times, as well.
Since the following is anecdotal, I will stick to the first-person:
It's a bit frustrating; I can't even have meaningful conversations with other NTs. In my experience, XNTPs are always too preoccupied with dissecting the metaphors, allegories, and terms I used to attempt to put into concrete language the miasma that is my internal experience that they are either incapable of or unwilling to see what it is that I'm trying to say. ...
This is extremely frustrating for me, too, though I have even more trouble with S types on this.
I'd just like to add that, in my personal experience, the request I get most often when I try to explain my ideas is "can you give me an example?" ... and this, of course, is the hardest thing to do for me. Even though I am quite aware of this issue, I often seem to forget about it until I get hit with the request, and then follows the long pause where I desperately try to search my thoughts for a concrete and relevant example, which would illustrate my point more effectively. In the meantime, my mind gets bombarded with a million comparisons and metaphors, and yet none of them seem to be relevant enough. In the end I just choose one of them and go with it, hoping that the other person will pick out the inconsistencies and then focus on the relevant bits, further developing the example on their own with other related examples.
This whole process can be quite frustrating sometimes ...
Don't I know it.
The INTJ I knew could write eloquently, but was a perfectionist who mulled over phrasing and word choice to the point where writing a paragraph was an incredibly long process. ...
I have spent over an hour sometimes "crafting" a post for a forum!
...
INTJ's and INFJ's are the two types that have the most difficulty communicating. Their Ni gives them amazing insight, but most INJ's don't have a well developed function that they can use to effectively communicate those insights. With INTJ's I've found that it takes several tries before they can precisely state what they mean. With INFJ's (the very few I know) I've found that they just use words like "thingy" or "stuff" or maybe just invent their own vocabulary to express what they mean. I actually believe that this communication difficulty is why INFJ's are sometimes described as psychic. They can have amazing insights into human emotions and psyche, but they don't usually have an effective way to communicate those insights, so people just say they are psychic. (Insights without explanation)
Often with an INTJ what I will do is ask him/her to clarify or elaborate on his/her thoughts, or sometimes I simply try to rephrase their thoughts into my own words. Then they can tell me if I understand them correctly or they can try again to say what they mean. Not only does this help communication, but I find in doing this it helps the INTJ give some concrete detail to some of the "fuzzy hard to explain parts" of their thoughts. Also in this process they often change some of the details in their thinking. INTJ's are actually very flexible mentally; they only appear rigid outwardly. Once you get to know them you will find they will readily change their opinion on something in order to get the most logical or efficient result.
Thank you for the valuable insights.
I think my problem is that I might skip over what I consider to be stupid details, expecting that the listener will understand what I am saying.
Basically, I think that our problem isn't that we have trouble putting our thoughts into words, it's that our speaking manner can only be understood by Ns.
Edit to add: I have noticed some weird problems at work, though (I'm a waiter at Chili's). Sometimes I will walk up to a table without having any idea what I am about to say, and just start talking. Normally, this works out ok, but occasionally some random ... bursts out that doesn't make any sense....
I can relate to this, too.
Sometimes, I have to rehearse in my mind what I want to say, if I'm afraid to say something stupid.
Once I wanted to congratulate a Navy boss who had been made a Commander and I practiced for about 10-15 minutes what I wanted to say. My "little speech" was entirely sincere and heartfelt, but in order to say everything I felt, I had to practice it ahead of time. It was probably only 2 sentences.
Most unfortunately, besides myself and the Commander, someone else was standing there who overheard what I said, and had the gall to ask me right then and there if I had
practiced that little speech. I said nothing. Since I meant every word, I didn't see how I could possibly have done anything wrong. It was 25 years ago and it still bothers me that a total stranger would embarrass me that way.
