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  1. #51
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I think my problem is that I might skip over what I consider to be stupid details, expecting that the listener will understand what I am saying.

    Basically, I think that our problem isn't that we have trouble putting our thoughts into words, it's that our speaking manner can only be understood by Ns.

    Edit to add: I have noticed some weird problems at work, though (I'm a waiter at Chili's). Sometimes I will walk up to a table without having any idea what I am about to say, and just start talking. Normally, this works out ok, but occasionally some random crap bursts out that doesn't make any sense. I'm past caring, though.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  2. #52
    heart on fire
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    I have a lot of trouble putting my thoughts into adequate verbal communication. I can understand a lot more things than I can express in words.

  3. #53
    Member Ferrus's Avatar
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    No, not usually. At least not typing. My ability to express myself is perhaps what I aim to hone most.

  4. #54
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    INTJ's and INFJ's are the two types that have the most difficulty communicating. Their Ni gives them amazing insight, but most INJ's don't have a well developed function that they can use to effectively communicate those insights. With INTJ's I've found that it takes several tries before they can precisely state what they mean. With INFJ's (the very few I know) I've found that they just use words like "thingy" or "stuff" or maybe just invent their own vocabulary to express what they mean. I actually believe that this communication difficulty is why INFJ's are sometimes described as psychic. They can have amazing insights into human emotions and psyche, but they don't usually have an effective way to communicate those insights, so people just say they are psychic. (Insights without explanation)
    Actually, I have very little difficulty verbalizing my thoughts. The biggest problem I face is that I tend to be considered boring by many people because they believe my thoughts are too complex, and they have short attention spans. In fact, I usually get excellent grades on my English essays. In most tests I've taken, language is considered to be my primary skill set. I would even go so far as to say that I usually think in words rather than pictures. The other oddity is that I find it easy to keep a conversation going for several hours, despite the fact that I'm an Introvert. It's as though I always have something in the back of my mind to bring up as a new topic. Additionally, I enjoy studying language, and believe that I have no deficit in that particular area.

    In other words, I believe that if you can correlate language skill to type, only INTJ's suffer from this difficulty communicating verbally. Since I am supposed to be an INFJ, I would assume that most other INFJ's are similar.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I have a lot of trouble putting my thoughts into adequate verbal communication. I can understand a lot more things than I can express in words.
    Ditto. The only way I can be concise and articulate is if I have a chance to think beforehand or if my mood has been built up to allow me clarity (like during a verbal debate). Sometimes I can get lucky and hit the nail on the head, but then if you later ask me to repeat myself, I'll flounder.

    "A want fastened, wants annihilation."

  6. #56
    Junior Member amber_rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'm pretty sure other INTJs will back me up on this, but putting our thoughts into words is really, really difficult. I often feel like I've learned to speak Human as a second language.
    Yup, I definitely agree on this. I also have a hard time putting my thoughts into words because it takes ALOT of time looking for the right word.

    I obsess on the precise expression, the profound meaning of vocabulary, the exact prepositions, etc.

    So when people read my writings or hear what I say, they think I'm saying something very complicated or professional. Sometimes I think that my ideas are less complicated than how I express them.

    On my writings, I hear 'abstruse', 'esoteric', 'difficult to understand', etc.


    BTW, I laughed on "Human as a second language"
    I-31, N-25, T-55, J-27
    "Place the visible at the service of the invisible" - Redon, Odilon

  7. #57
    Senior Member
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    Default In theory, this post should be muuuuch shorter...

    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    I've generally found INTPs to have the most concise use of language. ENTJs, a close second, but still ahead of the ENTP.
    I've had other people mention this to and about me. Someone will ask whatever reason I don't talk much, like if I'm not feeling well or shy and they'll say, "No, he just doesn't waste words."

    When it comes to writing I can babble with the best of them. If it's something like an e-mail I have to send for work then I may really choose my words carefully. It can be real senator-speak. Appease people w/out really promising anything. Just yesterday someone was asking me "How do I say this [...]" For some reason I really enjoy people edit. I've even made a buck or two off of it but will often find that there isn't enough pure content there and coming up with new ideas or material should be at a premium rate.

    But, I digress.

    I find talking to SJ to be much more difficult. It's very hard for me to talk with them sometimes. Haven't really analyzed why. I just tend to clam up. It's easier for me to talk to NT's. Even when talking to NF's, I'll feel self conscious if I go on to a third sentence w/out an exchange unless explaining a concept. With NT's I either don't need to or don't mind to. I don't know why this is or how I could break people's type down because I certainly can't do it otherwise. It's just some people I have a real ease with (some whose types I've later learned) and others not so much.

    I like it when I'm able to say just one or two words and the people or person I'm talking to really "get" what I'm trying to say. There was one lady I met at a bar last year that I would've been so curious to know her type, we had the best verbal volley going. It got down to one word back-n-forth for like six exchanges. Then of course we'd completed all we needed to say.

    Organizing thoughts in general or trying to convey an idea or emotion I find rather easy in the overall sense. I sometimes struggle for the precise word that best describes my feeling or pov. In speaking I like to know what I'm saying before letting words fly out my mouth. I really hate saying "Oh, I really didn't mean that" because it sounds so insincere. I've even played out full conversations in my head and not just difficult, "I don't think this is working" type ones. Just all the time talking to people about possible subjects that may never come up. How weird izat?!

    I wish I had that same ease in talking as I do in writing to where I can sit down and let the words flow. I often sound old and slow because there's like the same 7 second radio delay going on in my brain so I can stop words from broadcasting. I have no idea why it's in place. It's not like constantly get in trouble over things I say, nor do I feel internally relieved from like 'Oh, good thing I didn't let that slip.' That's the main thing I wish I could get over.

  8. #58
    Junior Member ShyINTP's Avatar
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    My husband is an ISTJ and I've had problems trying to explain to him why I have problems explaining things to him.
    This is so funny, my wife is an ISFJ, and I have exactly the same problem.
    --- male, INTx (56,56,67,+/-16)% Princeton, NJ 08540 ---

  9. #59
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Actually, somewhat on that note, I'm curious: do INTPs tend to have difficulty putting their thoughts into words? ENTPs seem to have nooooooo problem with this, but I've been chalking it up to the E more than anything else. Now I'm curious - is it in fact that Ti lends itself to expressing complex concepts more readily? I'm pretty sure other INTJs will back me up on this, but putting our thoughts into words is really, really difficult. I often feel like I've learned to speak Human as a second language.
    If I read type descriptions well, this might be a difference between INTP and INTJ. Putting abstract and complex ideas into understandable explanations is one of the qualities of INTP. e.g. they are the archetypical philosophy professors.
    We do struggle with it because of our obsession to use exactly the right words to express our thoughts, but that does not have to imply that we have trouble doing so.
    Does that make sense?
    (I like this metasmiley a lot)
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  10. #60
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    You can never be too precise. I'm always searching for the better word. Also, it takes a while to organize sentences and ideas.

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