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  1. #41
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    "?" pretty much hit the nail on the head. In my personal estimation, part of an INTJ's "individuality" comes from having attempted countless times to communicate what he has in mind, only to be met with smirky aren't-you-forgettings, what-abouts, and you're-just-assumings. Perhaps other INTJs have had different experiences.
    No, you've hit that nail squarly on the head as well.


    (And for those of you clever enough to catch the omission, I have personally known two other INTJs in my life, and they were both woefully underdeveloped, bitter little people.)
    Young, maybe? Age does seem to mellow us. Hell, I'm living peacefully with an ISTJ, something I know I couldn't have done 10 years ago!

    I lived alone for years and had very much the same reaction you describe. I was never bored, rarely lonely and felt very much at peace. I do really well on my own, I still think of it as what feels 'right' or 'natural'.

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  2. #42
    Junior Member Ariadne's Avatar
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    I do have problems communicating with people, especially face-to-face or on the phone. I prefer to talk to people online, so I can think of a decent answer... But sometimes, it takes me a while to even do that.

  3. #43
    Junior Member TinyCerebellum's Avatar
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    I'd just like to add that, in my personal experience, the request I get most often when I try to explain my ideas is "can you give me an example?" ... and this, of course, is the hardest thing to do for me. Even though I am quite aware of this issue, I often seem to forget about it until I get hit with the request, and then follows the long pause where I desperately try to search my thoughts for a concrete and relevant example, which would illustrate my point more effectively. In the meantime, my mind gets bombarded with a million comparisons and metaphors, and yet none of them seem to be relevant enough. In the end I just choose one of them and go with it, hoping that the other person will pick out the inconsistencies and then focus on the relevant bits, further developing the example on their own with other related examples.

    This whole process can be quite frustrating sometimes ...

  4. #44
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    I find it's nice coming from a family of farmers and tradesmen. I have been fortunate enough to see real world procedures most would recognise and I use those to augment my metaphors.
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  5. #45
    Junior Member TinyCerebellum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    I find it's nice coming from a family of farmers and tradesmen. I have been fortunate enough to see real world procedures most would recognise and I use those to augment my metaphors.
    That makes sense. You've been lucky in that respect. My parents are both intellectuals in the nuclear physics field, but I think that'd be a rather poor excuse ... I've already learned not to blame others for my shortcomings.

  6. #46
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    For me it depends on whether what I'm saying is difficult or not.

    I know that seems like a trite answer, but what I mean by it is that normally I have ZERO trouble talking to people. The only time I struggle is when I am working on an idea that is hard to articulate, and in those cases I'm better in print than in person. Writing gives me time to gather my thoughts and edit drafts. When you talk, it's just...you know...out there.

  7. #47
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    The INTJ I knew could write eloquently, but was a perfectionist who mulled over phrasing and word choice to the point where writing a paragraph was an incredibly long process. Verbally he often said things very directly (which can be blunt and harsh to an F like me). And when I did get offended, he really took it hard on himself, meaning he was actually angry at himself for saying something the wrong way, almost as though he felt he was incapable of expressing himself effectively. Again, though, he was talking to me...and I'm just sensitive. I had to learn to tone down my reactions to some of the things that came out of his mouth.

  8. #48
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    INTP's don't necessarily have any more communication difficulties than any other type. In fact I'd say that most are very good communicators since they can make use of Ne to get their points across to the listener and Ti to ensure that their thoughts flow together logically.

    INTJ's and INFJ's are the two types that have the most difficulty communicating. Their Ni gives them amazing insight, but most INJ's don't have a well developed function that they can use to effectively communicate those insights. With INTJ's I've found that it takes several tries before they can precisely state what they mean. With INFJ's (the very few I know) I've found that they just use words like "thingy" or "stuff" or maybe just invent their own vocabulary to express what they mean. I actually believe that this communication difficulty is why INFJ's are sometimes described as psychic. They can have amazing insights into human emotions and psyche, but they don't usually have an effective way to communicate those insights, so people just say they are psychic. (Insights without explanation)

    Often with an INTJ what I will do is ask him/her to clarify or elaborate on his/her thoughts, or sometimes I simply try to reprase their thoughts into my own words. Then they can tell me if I understand them correctly or they can try again to say what they mean. Not only does this help communication, but I find in doing this it helps the INTJ give some concrete detail to some of the "fuzzy hard to explain parts" of their thoughts. Also in this process they often change some of the details in their thinking. INTJ's are actually very flexible mentally; they only appear rigid outwardly. Once you get to know them you will find they will readily change their opinion on something in order to get the most logical or efficient result.
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  9. #49
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Often with an INTJ what I will do is ask him/her to clarify or elaborate on his/her thoughts, or sometimes I simply try to reprase their thoughts into my own words. Then they can tell me if I understand them correctly or they can try again to say what they mean. Not only does this help communication, but I find in doing this it helps the INTJ give some concrete detail to some of the "fuzzy hard to explain parts" of their thoughts. Also in this process they often change some of the details in their thinking.
    One of my very close friends is an ENTP, and I enjoy discussing things with him for this precise reason. Whenever I have a new theory that I can't quite put into words, I discuss it with him; 9 times out of 10 he'll say, "Oh, so you mean [...]", and he hits the nail on the head. I then use his explanation in subsequent discussions related to the topic with other people.
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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Actually, somewhat on that note, I'm curious: do INTPs tend to have difficulty putting their thoughts into words? ENTPs seem to have nooooooo problem with this, but I've been chalking it up to the E more than anything else. Now I'm curious - is it in fact that Ti lends itself to expressing complex concepts more readily? I'm pretty sure other INTJs will back me up on this, but putting our thoughts into words is really, really difficult. I often feel like I've learned to speak Human as a second language.
    I've always found INTPs to be better verbally than ENTPs, written or oral. I think ENTPs are good at dumbing down complex subjects in laymen's terms (if they understood the subject to begin with) but I've generally found INTPs to have the most concise use of language. ENTJs, a close second, but still ahead of the ENTP.

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