• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INTP] Arguments and Precedent

Obfuscate

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
1,907
MBTI Type
iNtP
Enneagram
954
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
okay, so i have been reading The Secret lives of INTPs (i blame taran)... anyway, how is it that a fight isn't about the principle/precedent? i have some pretty disparaging opinions of people that actually want to fight out every individual issue... what a waste of time; you people are "crazy"... how do you feel about the content i have extracted? do you pick fights over specific issues withought thinking of the implication of precedent, and if so why? do you have an argument to help me see doing so as reasonable? obviously this is a post about intp's and not one directed solely towards them...i would like to hear everyone/anyone's thoughts on this matter....

 

Radio Bob

Resident Alien
Joined
Nov 24, 2016
Messages
104
Obfuscate, from my experience I've come to feel that more often than I ever realized the subject of the fight isn't about the stated subject at all. It seems grossly illogical also, but often it's about gaining attention, projecting without personal responsibility, distracting one's self from accountability, or worst of all, attempting to control another persons mood or actions for selfish reasons. I often disconnect and ask myself "what is this really all about?" especially if a pattern emerges and it becomes predictable. I have some personal things I try and think through and then re-engage to help until/unless I realize the goal is not self improvement or honest introspection, and just wallowing in a spot where some comfort has grown. If I confront someone head on with my analysis and feelings, their reactions choose my course for the future of our discussions. Picking up a baseball bat to get someone's attention doesn't work if they are making a profession out of not seeing things and runs against my "do no wrong" attitude. I hope I didn't miss your point and I deliberately did not review your spoiler.

I'm reading The Secret Life slowly. I tend to read a thought and then go plug it back into life's experiences. Tends to make me appear slow in casual conversation at times, because I've got a lot of toll gates to push it through. Hopefully when done, it will be fully integrated and fit well.

Taran (Now Radio Bob)
 
Last edited:

Obfuscate

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
1,907
MBTI Type
iNtP
Enneagram
954
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Obfuscate, from my experience I've come to feel that more often than I ever realized the subject of the fight isn't about the stated subject at all. It seems grossly illogical also, but often it's about gaining attention, projecting without personal responsibility, distracting one's self from accountability, or worst of all, attempting to control another persons mood or actions for selfish reasons. I often disconnect and ask myself "what is this really all about?" especially if a pattern emerges and it becomes predictable. I have some personal things I try and think through and then re-engage to help until/unless I realize the goal is not self improvement or honest introspection, and just wallowing in a spot where some comfort has grown. If I confront someone head on with my analysis and feelings, their reactions choose my course for the future of our discussions. Picking up a baseball bat to get someone's attention doesn't work if they are making a profession out of not seeing things and runs against my "do no wrong" attitude. I hope I didn't miss your point and I deliberately did not review your spoiler.

I'm reading The Secret Life slowly. I tend to read a thought and then go plug it back into life's experiences. Tends to make me appear slow in casual conversation at times, because I've got a lot of toll gates to push it through. Hopefully when done, it will be fully integrated and fit well.

Taran
your new username reminds me of radio mike...

no, you didn't miss the point at all... those are reasons i have also observed... i find arguing with most people to be frustrating and nearly pointless... my post was more or less an expression of frustration, though i was hoping folks would explain their rationale/tactics for arguing from their perspective...

i plowed through about 3/4's of the book in a night... i will be attempting the rest after i read a bit more of the two e e cummings books i am working on...
 

Radio Bob

Resident Alien
Joined
Nov 24, 2016
Messages
104
Radio Mike and Slab City are very interesting. I've made a mental note to go back and study along the same line as Burning Man, (but more enduring). Some late night internet cruising for sure. Thank You. I Love investigating things, (sometimes at my own peril unfortunately).
 

Radio Bob

Resident Alien
Joined
Nov 24, 2016
Messages
104
Actually now I do remember reading about Slab City a few years ago and all the colorful encampments and semi-full time residents. I think I stumbled on it while reading about Burning Man. Made me smile again. Thanks.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
5,950
MBTI Type
N/A
Enneagram
N/A
okay, so i have been reading The Secret lives of INTPs (i blame taran)... anyway, how is it that a fight isn't about the principle/precedent? i have some pretty disparaging opinions of people that actually want to fight out every individual issue... what a waste of time; you people are "crazy"... how do you feel about the content i have extracted? do you pick fights over specific issues withought thinking of the implication of precedent, and if so why? do you have an argument to help me see doing so as reasonable? obviously this is a post about intp's and not one directed solely towards them...i would like to hear everyone/anyone's thoughts on this matter....

I like your spoilered example and it's wonderfully illustrative of the combination of thinking and emotional patterns. An e9 would feel of course very much like life is about concessions since e9s are driven by the avoidance of conflict. For [MENTION=30892]Radio Bob[/MENTION] as an e5, his reply is illustrative of intellectualizing past the emotions to a place where those emotions are more contained and distanced from the self; in fact, not even recognized as originating from within the self.

do you have an argument to help me see doing so as reasonable?

The argument is to recognize the emotional pattern and come up with a plan for what will help you best from that vantage point. What will help you hold awareness that you retain your autonomy and sense of self even if you accommodate the preferences of other people? (eta and collaboratively, what will help you make your own choices even in the face of the fear of separation in conflict?)
 

Radio Bob

Resident Alien
Joined
Nov 24, 2016
Messages
104
I like your spoilered example and it's wonderfully illustrative of the combination of thinking and emotional patterns. An e9 would feel of course very much like life is about concessions since e9s are driven by the avoidance of conflict. For [MENTION=30892]Radio Bob[/MENTION] as an e5, his reply is illustrative of intellectualizing past the emotions to a place where those emotions are more contained and distanced from the self; in fact, not even recognized as originating from within the self.=QUOTE]

Hi [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION]. I have to admit I put my rudimentary typology hat on and had to read your comment a couple of times. After that, I second your comment with a "yes" and go further to state, (at least for me) if I loose the analysis detachment, it becomes a personal second order silent inquisition on why I did so, and how to not have it happen again, (normally after the fact).

However, I must also admit that your comment sent me down a trail of personal contrasts between dealing with joyful things and dealing with such things as an argument and how I may sense, feel, and integrate each of those, (they are quite different for me and probably for most). I'm not here to hijack the discussion with a diversion about dealing with joy, just to let you know that you did get my gears going about the other side of the pendulum swing.

I must share a very personal comment here, that my thoughts expressed in this thread represent my personal body of experience, (which probably represents about 1/2 of my 63 years of age, as well as a diverse experience in organizational management).

I seem to be screwing up how to format the Quotes. I'll figure it out.

Radio Bob
 
Last edited:

Obfuscate

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
1,907
MBTI Type
iNtP
Enneagram
954
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Actually now I do remember reading about Slab City a few years ago and all the colorful encampments and semi-full time residents. I think I stumbled on it while reading about Burning Man. Made me smile again. Thanks.

it's a fun place to spend time... it would be a good place to spend a winter (you are retired, and have an rv if my memory serves... i did read something about you enjoying motorcycles also... it is right near mexico, and quite pleasant that time of year... it is good to keep in mind that it is a mixed community (people of all kinds)... people with million dollar r.v.s and people living with nothing doing drugs... it actually isn't a terrible idea to take a gun (though i never needed one while i was there)... i camped with a group of traveling kids for a few weeks: two canadian brothers that had rode there on their bikes, a family (they had a little girl), a couple hiding from the woman's violent ex husband, a couple of ex-military guys, my friend that was traveling the country in his van, a guy who traveled by thumb, and (for a time) myself... as for people from outside the camp there were All kinds (i bet you can picture it)...
 
Top