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[NT] NT's and Social Stature

Cypocalypse

New member
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
252
MBTI Type
eNtP
Enneagram
4w5/
This is just an observation I wanna clarify, and I would like to know your thoughts on this.

I'm an INTP and I'm a Filipino. In the Philippines, where the culture is more social than individualistic (Imagine Oriental collectivism minus the perfectionist attitude), looking for an INTP is pretty damn difficult. I've only met very few of them (I guess they're xNTP).

Attending a Unitarian Universalist congregation here (which is a very xNxP structured congregation) made me encounter a more of them, though sometimes it's hard to tell whether they're F or T dominant. The only thing I can assure myself is that they're all P).

Most of the UU members in my congregation are middle class to upper class people, (as well as the other non-UU INTP people I've met elsewhere).

Here in the Philippines where social stature is a big issue, observing the stature of my peers would be, I guess, a bit understandable. I'm trying to see if this observation has a bearing. My hypothesis is....

INTPs could have came from a very J oriented family set-up where the P function acts as a counter measure to J, otherwise if all family members would be J, then that would lead into a lot of confrontation. They're probably the children of established (meaning, having a good stature) J parents.

These INTPs may not have a drive for achievement (TJ drive) because the financial work has already been done for them (that is, they're de facto affluent). They need not be popular (SF drive) because their sheer affinity to the family is already enough of an affirmation. Basically, they don't even need attention because their J fuctioned parents have them well monitored.

What they need is individuality, that's why they've strengthened the P function to perceive ways of looking for a definitive niche outside of the J cage, where the Ne is the explorer function.

_______________

There are two NTJs that I know. One is an ENTJ and the other one seems to be an INFJ with a very strong Te. Both of them have stories of living a poor childhood hence the stronger drive to be financially affluent.

Do you think this has validity? That is, one will gun for something that he doesn't have originally? Does that imply that INTPs in general live in a situation where most of the basics are already met hence they enjoy exploring knowledge for knowledge's sake?
 

BlackOp

New member
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Aug 18, 2008
Messages
211
MBTI Type
intj
I could be wrong on this.... any INTJ in church must have been forced by gunpoint. If they are there...look to the back rows. They are the ones sleeping.....
 

Kaizer

sophiloist
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
795
MBTI Type
INTp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
looking for an INTP is pretty damn difficult. I've only met very few of them (I guess they're xNTP).

My hypothesis is....

INTPs could have came from a very J oriented family set-up where the P function acts as a counter measure to J, otherwise if all family members would be J, then that would lead into a lot of confrontation. They're probably the children of established (meaning, having a good stature) J parents.

What they need is individuality, that's why they've strengthened the P function to perceive ways of looking for a definitive niche outside of the J cage, where the Ne is the explorer function.

The P surrounded by Js is something I've just become aware of and paradoxically the P needing to be or expected/naturally seen to have more of the J element in them seems to accompany this. Still trying to figure it out though as well as its effects over the long term especially.

Do you think this has validity? That is, one will gun for something that he doesn't have originally? Does that imply that INTPs in general live in a situation where most of the basics are already met hence they enjoy exploring knowledge for knowledge's sake?

Not quite because of the need for the J side being developed; but I can see and do agree to the extent viz concrete results being seen as byproducts and not necessarily the main focus to achieve that 'byproduct'
 
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Uytuun

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Apr 19, 2008
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1,633
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nnnn
I could be wrong on this.... any INTJ in church must have been forced by gunpoint. If they are there...look to the back rows. They are the ones sleeping.....

I think you are. :p

INTJs tend to believe and then try to find a rational way of defending that belief, but they believe first and foremost. There's a decided affinity with the spiritual in the type, even though that need not be equated with organised religion and can be very idiosyncratic.

I once knew a very religious and wholly convinced INTJ.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
I could be wrong on this.... any INTJ in church must have been forced by gunpoint. If they are there...look to the back rows. They are the ones sleeping.....

I believe that among NT's, the INTJ is the type most likely to belong to an organized religion.
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
My best high-school friend, INTJ to the max, was raised Christian and furiously defended the faith, and we debated endlessly. One day he changed his mind and became an atheist.
 

sakuraba

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Oct 25, 2007
Messages
371
MBTI Type
(y)
Enneagram
7w8
i dont give a F*** about social stature.
 

Kristiana

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Dec 28, 2007
Messages
326
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INTJ
I could be wrong on this.... any INTJ in church must have been forced by gunpoint. If they are there...look to the back rows. They are the ones sleeping.....

You're wrong. :) There are many of us out there who disprove your theory, myself, my husband, and a handful of my friends included ;)
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,768
I think it much depends on how strong the 4 letters are when we talk about the religion and INTJ type.
 

dnivera

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May 4, 2008
Messages
165
MBTI Type
ISTJ
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6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
In response to the OP:

In Asian countries, I agree that high social status means being more Westernized (individualistic) than conforming, so more free-thinking, creative or independent types are more highly represented in the higher classes. It's also related to education level. Asians worship education. "Education" today means something entirely different from "education" 1000 years ago. Today it means more of becoming a cosmopolitan, freethinking person with a sort of global awareness, while 1000 years ago in China, for example, it meant accumulating a massive amount of information so you could pass your bureacratic exams and so forth (SJ-like). So more highly educated people today are more likely to question ideas, be more abstract, strategic and such (NT-ish).

I honestly think that children of affluent parents can turn into anything (not necessarily mostly NTs) because of how much freedom they have to explore while growing up. Our society encourages the "you can do anything!" approach to careers and I was taught that I could be a ballerina, astronaut, or cowboy if I wanted to, when I grew up. (LIES! But that's another story...) With the right amount of nurturing, and sufficient exposure to the arts outside of their primary school education - meaning that children get music lessons, practice art, play a sport, learn foreign languages, etc - they have the encouragement to develop virtually any kind of personality, depending on their environment.
However, NTs are favored because high-earning professions today that Asian parents value (doctor, engineer, lawyer) require so much education, and NTs do so well with math, science, and in academia.
 

Mondo

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Mar 1, 2008
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EsTP
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6w7
I have an INTJ friend who is an incredibly religious Catholic.
He strongly believes in the moral code of the religion and considers it the best way to live life. He doesn't impose his views on other people and he's a great person to argue with! The thing I like about him best is that he is tolerant of those who don't follow the same views he does. The only religious people who bother me are those who are intolerant of other views. He has plans to get a PHD in Theology.

Not all NTs are atheists..keep that in mind.

On the other side, I have another INTJ friend who strongly opposes religion and he was raised in a strongly religious Catholic family. On the other hand, he was also raised in an SJ-ish environment in terms of Catholicism while I don't think my other friend was. He's a hardcore atheist and he's pretty intolerant of those who are religious...

In terms of NTs and religion, I think it matters by the way religion is brought upon you.
 

Sinister Scribe

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Oct 11, 2008
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62
MBTI Type
INTx
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5
I think you are. :p

INTJs tend to believe and then try to find a rational way of defending that belief, but they believe first and foremost. There's a decided affinity with the spiritual in the type, even though that need not be equated with organised religion and can be very idiosyncratic.

I once knew a very religious and wholly convinced INTJ.

Heh. I'm religious, but you won't find me stepping into a church unless I'm dragged there... probably kicking and screaming the whole way. But that's a long story in and out of itself.

One of my good friends whom I would consider to be a mentor is a religious and very convicted INTJ. It's interesting because his beliefs influence the way he acts towards people and it's not too difficult to tell that he has given these beliefs thought.

Another friend of mine is an ENTP secular atheist. Not all NTs are atheists and not all NFs are religious.
 
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