[NT] It's so hard to me as a NT to live in the majority S world

[Yuurei]

You know, I keep hearing that sensors are the majority but based on the people n this forum..and the other forum I've been on, the numbers don't add up.

I have a very hard time getting along with people well, certain I should say. I find that half the population absolutely despises me and nearly poisons me with their negativity, and the other half well, when I tell them " I have a hard time getting along with people." They think I am being sarcastic.

A lot of it does have to with me just being a very different person than the 1st half. Whether or not it has to do with SvN I don't know.

 

[EcK]

I don't understand damn Sensors. Why are they a majority? Even if I am a rationalist, it so hard to understand and be understood by Sensors.

Any similar experience? Do you as a Rationalist find yourself trapped in the invisible web of Sensors? Fuck Locke, I wanna Descartes!

Why rationalists are a minority?

And then, they (the majority of the populations) ask thyself why he is so tough-skinned, aloof and independent? Why is he must go against the stream?

 

[Yama]

You know, I keep hearing that sensors are the majority but based on the people n this forum..and the other forum I've been on, the numbers don't add up.

I have a very hard time getting along with people well, certain I should say. I find that half the population absolutely despises me and nearly poisons me with their negativity, and the other half well, when I tell them " I have a hard time getting along with people." They think I am being sarcastic.

A lot of it does have to with me just being a very different person than the 1st half. Whether or not it has to do with SvN I don't know.

The working theory is that intuitives are drawn to personality theory more than sensors and that sensors have ""real life"" things to do but I think that's bullshit and that half the intuitives are mistyped sensors.

 

[Yuurei]

The working theory is that intuitives are drawn to personality theory more than sensors and that sensors have ""real life"" things to do but I think that's bullshit and that half the intuitives are mistyped sensors.

I've heard a lot of people say that they think a lot of "N's" are mistyped. Can't say I know enough about it to judge.

 

[Yama]

I've heard a lot of people say that they think a lot of "N's" are mistyped. Can't say I know enough about it to judge.

It's mostly people who have extremely shallow/basic/barely any knowledge of MBTI who type as Ns and have an "N superiority S is stupid" stereotype attitude who are likely mistyped. Online tests and descriptions make sensors sound god awful haha so I can't entirely blame them.

 

[EJCC]

Can I just say for a moment that I love how this community instinctively tamps out and corrects stereotypes the second they appear? Many years ago on many typology forums that never happened, but collective we've learned to identify typology for what it really is, and this shows many of our goals here is to teach this first and foremost. It's pretty damn awesome.

This place has come a long way since I joined.

 

[entropie]

To some degree one can learn the basic patterns of human behaviour and they can predict and adapt. The more we navigate social situations, the better we can become at predicting and adapting to others' behavior. It's not perfect and trial and error is a large part of the process.

This can produce the politest misanthropes, the flipside of NFs, who are often the most bitter humanitarians, no?

Yes the perfect World of the NT.

From the NTs diary:
"I have analyzed every observable human behaviour and every possible societal pattern and when I finally thought I am on top of it all that girl hugged me and I was completly baffled. Havent accounted that for "

 

[EJCC]

Yes the perfect World of the NT.

From the NTs diary:
"I have analyzed every observable human behaviour and every possible societal pattern and when I finally thought I am on top of it all that girl hugged me and I was completly baffled. Havent accounted that for "

^ courtesy of the most INTP comic strip ever (XKCD)

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Yes the perfect World of the NT.

From the NTs diary:
"I have analyzed every observable human behaviour and every possible societal pattern and when I finally thought I am on top of it all that girl hugged me and I was completly baffled. Havent accounted that for "

I empathize with NTs when they speak of these experiences. It is similar to my experience coming of age with aspergers and learning how to interact with normies through trial and (much) error. It seems there is always a new thing to learn and I adjust my social interaction algorithms accordingly.

 

[miss fortune]

as an SP, I would appreciate it if the orderly and obedient stereotype was not applied to ALL Sensors... I've spent YEARS being bad and disobedient and living on a whim and diving into life with gusto

I wouldn't apply it so hastily to all SJs either... I've met some impressively wicked ones

 

[Poki]

I empathize with NTs when they speak of these experiences. It is similar to my experience coming of age with aspergers and learning how to interact with normies through trial and (much) error. It seems there is always a new thing to learn and I adjust my social interaction algorithms accordingly.

See...the difference isnt that NT have issues and ST doesnt. Its just that we adapt without directly having to adjust our "algorithms". Its more of a subconcious adaptation. We end up at the same place though. Its just you process it conciously and we dont.

We all have to adapt to the same environment which isnt S or N specifically, its both.

There are things NT does subconciously that we dont. And its things that are directly interacting with world and people as well that is just as natural at ST subconcious.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

[MENTION=29947]Mechnick[/MENTION]
I'll say something in defense of the OP because at least the first part of the thread really pushes back against it for some reason. I think it is a legitimate question because it is isolating to have a completely different way of thinking, to have different interests, different ideas you want to talk about.

The responses in this thread actually make me wonder if even the majority of people online are Sensors too, because it is genuinely difficult to connect if you are a predominately abstract thinker. People talk about sports, gossip, weather, politics, yard work, community happenings, and anything else that is observable, concrete, external. Open with Nassim Haramein's latest ideas on the unified field and just watch the eyes glaze over. If that is what you want to talk about to connect, then yes, you are going to feel isolated, and it isn't because there is something wrong with you. It is okay to be different, and it doesn't require a value judgment of who is better. Concrete people often feel superior to abstract 'nerds' (unless the nerd earns a lot of money and has a beautiful house) so let's allow each their own perspective.

To me the whole 'why are so many people S' thingie that often occurs to people at young age, I think isnt so much a problem of S or N but rather the result of a low self-esteem, underdeveloped self-conciencse or low self-trust. One may think this happens automatically, cause as a N person you always feel kinda alien in a S world but S people do have it as well, it just shows differently. While the typical depressed N person carries the weight of his burden out on the shoulders of the rest of the World (big picture) the typical depressed S person has a low self-esteem because he thinks, he doesnt look good anough to find a mate or to become a superstar. Its all different to S people but most of them have the same problems.

There are ways that most every person feels isolated at times, but there are segments of the population that do have more in common to chat about, share similar activities, and feel commonality. People experience commonality and isolation to different degrees overall, even though every person experiences some of both during a lifetime.

Basically, if you want to feel a sense of commonality and connection with people in general, you do have to conform to the prevailing social norm. If everyone is scrapbooking, you better sign up and paste cute pictures and lacey borders on your memories or you won't have friends. If everyone goes to church, you better sign up, sit in a pew, bring food and eat the picnic lunch afterwards while gossiping about the pastor and other members. If you want to join the band, you better go to the clubs, dress the same way they do, listen to the same music, and have the same ideas.

When a person doesn't naturally fit into the norm and can't conform to hide the fact, they are going to feel predominately isolated from people. That social isolation itself can be damaging to self-esteem, "what's wrong with me that I can't fit in or connect with the majority of people? What's wrong with me that my interests are different from other people?" I don't see the point in ostracizing someone for this. Those are difficult questions and there is a cost and a reward for however we choose to live our lives. If we choose personal authenticity, we won't have as much social connection and can end up feeling lonely or out of place. If you pay the price of conformity, they you will have the comfort of social belonging. The cost is higher for some people and the reward is greater for some. Whichever is greater will direct our chocies.

 

[EJCC]

^ [MENTION=14857]labyrinthine[/MENTION] I find that framing that as an N vs. S thing is limiting. You end up missing out on making SJ and SP friends who are actually interested in philosophy and abstract thought. Better to frame it as a question of interests -- as you just did -- vs. an S/N communication breakdown.

Edit: You could actually frame it as Ne vs. Ni if you want to. My friend group is kooky and abstract and bizarre and wonderful, and we're predominantly a mix of NPs and SJs. So, lots of Ne jokes.

 

[skimpit]

Hoo boy is this covered in teenage angst and misfit nonsense.

If anything, you should be lucky - you have to understand a flock of sheep (Sensors) and we gotta understand our supreme overlords (Ns).

*sarcasm*

If you posed the question a little more seriously I think you'd get a better answer.

 

[miss fortune]

[MENTION=29947]Mechnick[/MENTION]
I'll say something in defense of the OP because at least the first part of the thread really pushes back against it for some reason. I think it is a legitimate question because it is isolating to have a completely different way of thinking, to have different interests, different ideas you want to talk about.

The responses in this thread actually make me wonder if even the majority of people online are Sensors too, because it is genuinely difficult to connect if you are a predominately abstract thinker. People talk about sports, gossip, weather, politics, yard work, community happenings, and anything else that is observable, concrete, external. Open with Nassim Haramein's latest ideas on the unified field and just watch the eyes glaze over. If that is what you want to talk about to connect, then yes, you are going to feel isolated, and it isn't because there is something wrong with you. It is okay to be different, and it doesn't require a value judgment of who is better. Concrete people often feel superior to abstract 'nerds' (unless the nerd earns a lot of money and has a beautiful house) so let's allow each their own perspective.

There are ways that most every person feels isolated at times, but there are segments of the population that do have more in common to chat about, share similar activities, and feel commonality. People experience commonality and isolation to different degrees overall, even though every person experiences some of both during a lifetime.

Basically, if you want to feel a sense of commonality and connection with people in general, you do have to conform to the prevailing social norm. If everyone is scrapbooking, you better sign up and paste cute pictures and lacey borders on your memories or you won't have friends. If everyone goes to church, you better sign up, sit in a pew, bring food and eat the picnic lunch afterwards while gossiping about the pastor and other members. If you want to join the band, you better go to the clubs, dress the same way they do, listen to the same music, and have the same ideas.

When a person doesn't naturally fit into the norm and can't conform to hide the fact, they are going to feel predominately isolated from people. That social isolation itself can be damaging to self-esteem, "what's wrong with me that I can't fit in or connect with the majority of people? What's wrong with me that my interests are different from other people?" I don't see the point in ostracizing someone for this. Those are difficult questions and there is a cost and a reward for however we choose to live our lives. If we choose personal authenticity, we won't have as much social connection and can end up feeling lonely or out of place. If you pay the price of conformity, they you will have the comfort of social belonging. The cost is higher for some people and the reward is greater for some. Whichever is greater will direct our chocies.

but even then you can't classify people that way... there are sensors who would be a hell of a lot more interested in listening to a new scientific theory than having to listen to a bunch of boring drivel about sports, gossip and all of that bullshit... and sensors could bring a different perspective to discussing that as well, as in how that new theory could be applied and such

if we're discussing the weather I want to know how it works and why things happen and the chances of it raining frogs because I already KNOW what it's doing right now

and then try to throw that into a MBTI community where you're going to be prejudged by your type as well... you don't fit in off the site and then you get on somewhere like here hoping to get a bit of understanding from people and you get all of that "sensors are interested in community gossip" bullshit and you feel like you're getting pidgeonholed and put off to sit in the corner based on type alone

I thought that this site was finally starting to realize that S and N are just another one of the dichotomies lie I/E, T/F or P/J and not the be all end all of distinguishing between people and their potential and interests, but I guess that I expected too much from this site and its members...

 

[EJCC]

I thought that this site was finally starting to realize that S and N are just another one of the dichotomies lie I/E, T/F or P/J and not the be all end all of distinguishing between people and their potential and interests, but I guess that I expected too much from this site and its members...

^ On the bright side, back in ye olden days when you and I had just joined, there wouldn't have been any pushback at all -- let alone 3-4 pages of it.

 

[prplchknz]

but even then you can't classify people that way... there are sensors who would be a hell of a lot more interested in listening to a new scientific theory than having to listen to a bunch of boring drivel about sports, gossip and all of that bullshit... and sensors could bring a different perspective to discussing that as well, as in how that new theory could be applied and such

if we're discussing the weather I want to know how it works and why things happen and the chances of it raining frogs because I already KNOW what it's doing right now

and then try to throw that into a MBTI community where you're going to be prejudged by your type as well... you don't fit in off the site and then you get on somewhere like here hoping to get a bit of understanding from people and you get all of that "sensors are interested in community gossip" bullshit and you feel like you're getting pidgeonholed and put off to sit in the corner based on type alone

I thought that this site was finally starting to realize that S and N are just another one of the dichotomies lie I/E, T/F or P/J and not the be all end all of distinguishing between people and their potential and interests, but I guess that I expected too much from this site and its members...

i had the being pidgeonholed experience when i listed my type and i'm not an s type but i am an fi type which is another type people on this site has decided is dumb and useless.

 

[miss fortune]

^ On the bright side, back in ye olden days when you and I had just joined, there wouldn't have been any pushback at all -- let alone 3-4 pages of it.

true... I had to spend WAY too much time arguing that S=/= dumbass back then

now I only have to spend a bit of time arguing that point... and mostly to new members who have only read some shallow description of their type online before joining

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

but even then you can't classify people that way... there are sensors who would be a hell of a lot more interested in listening to a new scientific theory than having to listen to a bunch of boring drivel about sports, gossip and all of that bullshit... and sensors could bring a different perspective to discussing that as well, as in how that new theory could be applied and such

if we're discussing the weather I want to know how it works and why things happen and the chances of it raining frogs because I already KNOW what it's doing right now

and then try to throw that into a MBTI community where you're going to be prejudged by your type as well... you don't fit in off the site and then you get on somewhere like here hoping to get a bit of understanding from people and you get all of that "sensors are interested in community gossip" bullshit and you feel like you're getting pidgeonholed and put off to sit in the corner based on type alone

I thought that this site was finally starting to realize that S and N are just another one of the dichotomies lie I/E, T/F or P/J and not the be all end all of distinguishing between people and their potential and interests, but I guess that I expected too much from this site and its members...

I realized that the generalized nature of my comments would/should come under criticism. It isn't a generalized Sensor/iNtuitive issue, but there is one way a person can understand why someone could frame it that way in their individual context. There are cultural contexts that place much more value on the concrete and observable than the abstract and theoretical for social conversation and exchange. There are a lot of NT "nerds" who have been horribly bullied throughout their lives for not fitting into the social norms. This is often because they are in their own abstract, little world. That feeling of being ostracized and judged you express in response to my post is the feeling a lot of them have lived with throughout their lives. I think it is harder for a Ni-dom to fit into society, and they have to pay a greater cost to conform. There are advantages to conforming that people can certainly justify on many levels.

There is also an issue of specific cultural context. European culture is a lot different from certain parts of American culture from what I understand from others' accounts. I do think that American culture has high conformity pressure to be a consumer that doesn't reflect on self or personal authenticy in multiple instances. There are pockets of culture in which the conversations are mostly limited to shopping opportunities and such, but that isn't meant to impose that onto any one individual. It is an abstraction of reality, a generalized norm that may have absolutely nothing to do with one specific person reading this post.

There is an advantage to being more in touch with the concrete world because you can navigate it more easily in many cases. People can be more successful at work, in their communities, etc. People who are adept at these things may feel their perspective is superior to an abstract loner who struggles to relate. I think that many cultures would find the concrete adept person the "superior" person to the abstract loner, but the second person still has a right to have a voice and be justified being who they are as a person.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I mentioned this on miss fortune's wall but wanted to share here (forgive me if someone else already made the point because I haven't read the entire thread). I think the problems detailed in the OP aren't unique to NTs but can apply to STs as well. Poki noted the difference is not this experience but their approach to dealing with it.