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  1. #11
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    1. over-theorizing and over-analysing instead of making decisions and act upon them

    2. basically no or little practicality

    3. inertia, tendency to procrastinate away your life

    +1: arrogance


    Otherwise, you're a charming bunch of people and I like you a lot.

  2. #12
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    2. basically no or little practicality
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #13
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    +1: arrogance


    These references are common, and I've seen the NT behavior conceived of as arrogance, and the response to it. What's strange is that my concept of arrogance is profoundly different and has nothing to do with INTness. I do get they can express very direct, even harshly, with frustration, as though the person they are talking to is an 'idiot'. The difference is that INTs are unlikely to behave that way unless they have invested a great deal into arriving at their conclusion. When the other person rejects it on a whim, the result is frustration, but justifiably so imo. If it's true that I'm wrong, or careless and someone tells me without cushioning it, it isn't arrogance. If someone assumes they know what I know simply because they like the way that assumption feels, that is arrogance. To me arrogance is cheap, invested in social dominance for the sake of it, a sham, an overestimation of self for gratuitous reasons, inflated entitlement and a complete disregard for others and for what is true.

    For example Beethoven (who was absolutely an INT) said "There will be thousands of princes, but one Beethoven." That isn't arrogance because it is the truth.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I admit I was thinking of INTPs, first of all.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    For example Beethoven (who was absolutely an INT) said "There will be thousands of princes, but one Beethoven." That isn't arrogance because it is the truth.

    It's a hidden arrogance.

  6. #16
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    It's a hidden arrogance.
    I'm an NT and have come to realise that the vast majority of us are overly secure in our own ways/views. We mostly deal with the outer world being so 'harsh' by separating and elevating ourselves above others - the literal definition of arrogance. We seek reassurance in our own superiority. Those that get unhealthy begin to take it out on others... the rest keep it inside. It still leaks out.

  7. #17
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    It's a hidden arrogance.
    Disagree. There's nothing presumptuous or overbearing about it. It is a fact. You also have no context.


    3. inertia, tendency to procrastinate away your life
    I don't think this is INT but INTP. I know it's certainly not INTJ.

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm an NT and have come to realise that the vast majority of us are overly secure in our own ways/views. We mostly deal with the outer world being so 'harsh' by separating and elevating ourselves above others - the literal definition of arrogance. We seek reassurance in our own superiority. Those that get unhealthy begin to take it out on others... the rest keep it inside. It still leaks out.
    You're so wrong!!!!!



    Actually, can we explore the notion of simultaneously being secure and insecure in one's views?

    As I type this, I think the best way to clarify it is this:

    1. My faith in my conclusions is shaky.
    2. My faith in my reasoning process is absolute.

    Are those two things compatible?

    Arrogance I think is related to #2 but not to #1.

    If I trust my reasoning process, how can I not trust my conclusions? Because I am aware that all data is faulty and/or incomplete... leading to ambiguous conclusions at some level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    I don't think this is INT but INTP. I know it's certainly not INTJ.
    I'll get back to you once I finish surfing the rest of the forum/Internet/checking my e-mail for the fortieth time today.

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The difference is that INTs are unlikely to behave that way unless they have invested a great deal into arriving at their conclusion. When the other person rejects it on a whim, the result is frustration, but justifiably so imo.
    I very much identify with that. Few things make me more annoyed than people rejecting my ideas or even criticizing my intelligence or motives, when it's clear that they haven't bothered to really look at all the angles (if any of them) and I know I spent a lot of time thoroughly going through things beforehand.

    And so the reaction sometimes has been an overblown "door slam in the face" or something else that comes off as "Smarter than Thou."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    Disagree. There's nothing presumptuous or overbearing about it.
    That's why it's a hidden arrogance.

  10. #20
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    This post contains hidden irony. Can you see it?

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

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