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  1. #11
    FigerPuppet
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Wrong.

    If you're an Ni dominant and use Fi and Te, you're an INTJ. Even if Fi is more active than Te.

    What other type would you call that person?

    (I know a lot of INJs that seem to be quite comfortable with their tertiary function, even more so than their auxiliary. Introverted functions are safer, and are in closer affinity with the dominant.)
    Wrong. If you're an Ni dominant, Te auxiliary and Fi tertiary then you're an INTJ. The order must be exactly this, or else you're not an INTJ.

    You're supposed to be able to get the order of functions of a type from reading the 4 letters.

    INTJ - Ni dominant because of I and J. Te auxiliary because of I and J. "INTJ" means -Ni, Te, Fi, Se, Ne, Ti, Fe, Si-. You can't be an "INTJ" with auxiliary Fi, because that goes against the abbreviation "INTJ". You might use Fi more than usual, but you can not use it more than your Te.

  2. #12
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I'm not talking about the words auxiliary or tertiary. Fi is by definition the tertiary of an INTJ, and Te is by definition the auxiliary. (I understand MBTI, you don't have to teach me anything here.)

    I'm just saying that it's not necessary that you actually consciously focus more on Te than Fi.

    There are only two choices for Ni dominants. Those two choices are Te/Fi and Ti/Fe. Give me a reason they'd have to be in a specific order...

    Or, in other terms, what would you call someone that used Ni first and Fi second? You'd have to call them INTJ...you have no other option.

    If you do not have this order, you're not an INTJ. It's as simple as that. E.g.: If Fi is stronger than Te, then the order of the functions changes and you become another type.
    Then what are you?????

    Your take on MBTI doesn't account for shades of grey, meaning you will mistype people.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Wrong. If you're an Ni dominant, Te auxiliary and Fi tertiary then you're an INTJ. The order must be exactly this, or else you're not an INTJ.

    You're supposed to be able to get the order of functions of a type from reading the 4 letters.

    INTJ - Ni dominant because of I and J. Te auxiliary because of I and J. "INTJ" means -Ni, Te, Fi, Se, Ne, Ti, Fe, Si-. You can't be an "INTJ" with auxiliary Fi, because that goes against the abbreviation "INTJ". You might use Fi more than usual, but you can not use it more than your Te.
    That does not answer Usehername's question.

  4. #14
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    It's possible to access functions in a different order to your type preference by burning personal energy. So there will be INTJs who access Fe or Fi, and enjoy the novelty of doing so.. it may even be more active than the Te in facing the world. But, they are burning emotional (maybe not right word) energy in doing so, and it's more exhausting than their core preferences.

    Just to throw that in the mix.

  5. #15
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    It's possible to access functions in a different order to your type preference by burning personal energy. So there will be INTJs who access Fe or Fi, and enjoy the novelty of doing so.. it may even be more active than the Te in facing the world. But, they are burning emotional (maybe not right word) energy in doing so, and it's more exhausting than their core preferences.

    Just to throw that in the mix.
    I agree, except for when you said Fe. Fe directly gets in the way of Te, so it's probably only used in very rare cases.

    Extroverted judging processes use the exact same premises to draw conclusions. So you can get "true" and "bad" from the exact same pool of data. Bad news.

    With one pointed inwards and the other pointed out, they don't directly contradict each other. For example, Ti can say 'true' and Fe can say 'bad', which means it's true but it shouldn't (keyword - should, like value should) be applied or said. Or Fi can say 'good' and Te can say 'false', which means it should ideally be, but that ideal is not applicable or implementable at the moment.

    If Te says 'true' and Fe says 'bad', that means that it should be applied, but it can't be applied. Or if Ti says 'false' and Fi says 'good', that means it should ideally be but it isn't. Those options lead to great cognitive dissonance, whereas the above options are much easier to handle.

  6. #16
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    I agree, except for when you said Fe. Fe directly gets in the way of Te, so it's probably only used in very rare cases.

    Extroverted judging processes use the exact same premises to draw conclusions. So you can get "true" and "bad" from the exact same pool of data. Bad news.

    With one pointed inwards and the other pointed out, they don't directly contradict each other. For example, Ti can say 'true' and Fe can say 'bad', which means it's true but it shouldn't (keyword - should, like value should) be applied. Or Fi can say 'good' and Te can say 'false', which means it should ideally be, but that ideal is not applicable or implementable.

    If Te says 'true' and Fe says 'bad', that means that it should be applied, but it can't be applied. Or if Ti says 'false' and Fi says 'good', that means it should ideally be but it isn't. Those options lead to great cognitive dissonance, whereas the above options are much easier to handle.
    Hmm. Fe and Te... surely it is possible for an individual who tries really hard to use Fe.. even if Te is their core external function? After all it's just a case of personal development. Sure it'll be hard for an immature individual (in terms of life experience, not attitude) but for an experienced, say, middle aged individual, it should be possible to do so. To develop some external warmth and understanding, say.. it's just going to be tiring, but it may be enjoyable through novelty to allow Te to take a temporary back seat.

  7. #17
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    "external warmth and understanding" does not have to come from Fe, though. In the INTJs case, it's much more likely to be Ni-Fi expressed through Te. Ni-Fi is extremely capable of deep understanding of other people's feelings (as long as the INTJ decides to care about the person).

    Extroversion, for feeling, just means that the value judgments are deduced from externally tangible premises. Fi can care deeply about others, as long as their set of internal premises leads to positive sentiment.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    I wish people would stop saying "I have a weak [insert function here]". For every type there is a special order of functions. You must have this order of functions if you're an INTJ: Ni, Te, Fi, Se, Ne, Ti, Fe, Si

    If you do not have this order, you're not an INTJ. It's as simple as that. E.g.: If Fi is stronger than Te, then the order of the functions changes and you become another type.
    Is this an attempt to compensate my lacking Te? :p

    What I meant was that I have a comparatively weak Te for an INTJ. And a comparatively very high Ni. I didn't speak about the order of the functions.

    Seriously, though, let's also try a creative approach to the theory and look beyond what it posits as absolute or what you interpret it as positing as absolute.

    Especially after I've had plenty of time to not use it, because the minute it's kicked up, I kind of get on a production binge, and suddenly everything that needed to be done is taken care of. It's a good feeling, though it can get out of hand if I let it.
    Yes, I kind of rolled into working on my finances today and the Te effect was very cool and obvious. The thing is that I rolled into it and hadn't consciously determined that I *had* to. Seems to make a big difference.

    In the INTJs case, it's much more likely to be Ni-Fi expressed through Te. Ni-Fi is extremely capable of deep understanding of other people's feelings (as long as the INTJ decides to care about the person).
    So then what would be the difference with a Fe manifestation of external warmth and understanding? I have noticed that I'm better at and more comfortable with comforting my ESFP friend than at dealing with my INFJ friend's or my ESFJ mother's emotions - I feel ineffective or (at times) held back with them, despite sensing the Fi-ing inside. There's nothing to connect the Fi to. Hmm...I feel like it's empathy (Fi) vs. sympathy (Fe) sometimes.

  9. #19
    FigerPuppet
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    I'm not talking about the words auxiliary or tertiary. Fi is by definition the tertiary of an INTJ, and Te is by definition the auxiliary. (I understand MBTI, you don't have to teach me anything here.)

    I'm just saying that it's not necessary that you actually consciously focus more on Te than Fi.
    Ah, okay. I must've misunderstood. Disregard everything I've written.

  10. #20
    EvanTheClown (ETC) Clownmaster's Avatar
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    Hell, I'm just proud that I was able to comprehend these two pages.

    Because you can't spell "Slaughter" without "Laughter"

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