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  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    The F thing seems to expect a steady amount of maintenance to be involved in the friendship. At least, I see SFs especially having a tangible set of criteria that have to be met in order to prove that the relationship can be labeled as intimate or friendship or a marriage or whatever... (i.e., talk so many times a week, or certain types of life events must be related to the other person if they're in the inner circle, or whatnot).

    I relate a great deal to DTS's comments. I actually still tend to think a bit even about people who I didn't overly connect with, just because I'd like to feel a rapport with everyone; but there is just this assumption that, if we talked deeply in the past and/or clicked together, and nothing changed or no one was notified of something changing, then things are still the same as before, and the connection still exists... regardless of the time or distance involved.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #22
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    hmm. apparently, we're extremely low maintenance but that gets misconstrued as high maintenance.

  3. #23
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    I would think the desire for friendship is a Feeling characteristic.

    As a Thinker, I find friendship highly illogical.

  4. #24
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I would think the desire for friendship is a Feeling characteristic.

    As a Thinker, I find friendship highly illogical.
    ha! you aren't either/or. you're a crazy thing called 'human' which makes you both just to different degrees.

  5. #25
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I would think the desire for friendship is a Feeling characteristic.

    As a Thinker, I find friendship highly illogical.
    I think even for a Thinker you're a bit of an anomaly.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #26
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    ha! you aren't either/or. you're a crazy thing called 'human' which makes you both just to different degrees.
    Actually, I've been wondering if he's just another AI 'bot and isn't either at all.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturne
    Perhaps something peculiar to NTs, or just me, is that friendship is not devalued in time or place. I do not expect someone to apologise for not staying in contact with me, nor do I expect to apologise to them. If someone stops contacting me then I simply assume they have something else to occupy their time. Friendship does not devalue with time. In other words, even when I really value a friend, I may still not bother contacting them for a long time, the friendship stands irrespective of the frequency of contact.
    Raises hand - guilty as charged. However, in the context of society this sort of behaviour (only contacting them every once in a while) is seen as you are no longer interested in keeping said friendship - which often (speaking from my own experience) is not the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by jennifer
    The F thing seems to expect a steady amount of maintenance to be involved in the friendship. At least, I see SFs especially having a tangible set of criteria that have to be met in order to prove that the relationship can be labeled as intimate or friendship or a marriage or whatever... (i.e., talk so many times a week, or certain types of life events must be related to the other person if they're in the inner circle, or whatnot).
    I cannot do this sort of communication because it really feels meaningless for me. A big component of said tangible criteria which is small talk, which I can engage in (if somewhat rudimentary), but otherwise cannot stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix
    This uncompromising stuff I'm hearing is very scary. Is there no middle ground? I predict some serious game playing in the future if I'm always the one compromising. Does this not strike you all as unequal? What kind of meaningful relationship is that?
    I don't know about this game playing business. I think most INTP/J's hate that sort of crap in any relationship and I find it highly doubtful that we would be so hypocritical to put you through that. I think that we are mostly fairly easy going, unless you annoy us - then you will here about it.
    Last edited by themadness; 06-17-2007 at 07:54 PM. Reason: thought of something to add

  8. #28
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    A questions for you: How do I go about a friendship with an NT?

    Y'all are notoriously difficult to read and sometimes I can't tell whether I should proceed or not. I wrote in the ENFJ thread about how I had a blossoming friendship with an INTJ but then he left and our communications switched formats from face-to-face to emails. Because I wasn't getting any real-time input, it kinda petered out. I didn't want to be annoying and I didn't know if my persistence was welcomed.

    What kind of feedback can I expect from an NT to know that you want to be friends? I'm going to be honest about this, I'm an NF with lots of Fe and I strongly believe in the fine art of COMPROMISE. If I give a little, you've got to give a little. How can I have a mutually satisfying friendship with an NT without a bunch of hurt feelings (on both sides) and miscommunications?

    Thanks!
    I'm going to reply without having read a single response so that you can get my most pure thoughts.

    When I was reading it in the other thread, I was thinking "he went out for coffee with you?! He OBVIOUSLY enjoys your personality, why did you stop emailing him?"

    I don't know why he's not emailing back. Maybe it's not his format. I don't even know how to deal with that myself; I have this INTJ guy I am crushing on and I don't know how to read him without being in his presence. Emailing is difficult.

    But my most pure advice is that
    a) I promise that he likes you and I would be very surprised if he was annoyed by your contact (unless it was superficial talk ONLY, then he would be thinking about your past conversations and wondering if he saw more depth where there was none... just email substance next time and you'll be fine).
    b) You should just be upfront with him; tell him you loved his ideas and mind and want to continue helping each other grow your minds... or something.

    Don't give up if you're still thinking about him.

    Clear. Direct. Substance. Keep those in mind, you'll do great.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  9. #29
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    i'm replying to this because i'm friends with nocturne and we're both NTs, so i thought that since he could have been talking about me as i read that (it sounded perfectly sensible and correct), that it may help if i speak up.

    the last time we spoke was about a month ago, i'd guess. and, before that, two, three, maybe more months passed (see? i'm not even sure!). yet, because we clicked so easily, without trying, and talked long enough to eventually get to where we were comfortable (trusted one another) with our feelings about things when we first started talking about a year (or two?) ago, i see him as just as close a friend as he was in the beginning.

    if i were to speak to him today (hey, nocturne! *wave*), i'd speak just as freely, personally, openly, comfortably, and easily as i did when we first got to know one another. i'd assume he was the same person, and the only difference would be updated news about what he's up to these days. in other words, we'd pick right up where we left off as if we'd spoken the day before, and with the same ease.

    sure, if it's been quite a while, and i found out there was a huge change in his circumstances, then i'd ask questions that would pertain to his growth as a person, how it effected him, how he's doing, etc., but he'd still be the same basic person, and that's all i need to know to value his friendship and consider him a good one. close enough, even if a year passed, that if my heart was broken, and i saw him online, i wouldn't hesitate to ask him for advice, just talk if i needed a friend, and trust him with my feelings. it would be the same if it were reversed.

    time, distance, and other things people usually measure with don't apply when it comes to relationships that we value. unless you tell us we aren't your friend anymore, we assume we are. and, this may sound bad, but if we never gave you much thought to begin with, just had a few conversations, even intense ones, but didn't take it to a personal level, we're probably not giving you much or any thought at all.

    this mistake is made a lot. others thinking a connection has been made simply because we've talked to them quite a few times (many confuse intense conversation with connecting), but we can do that and then not give you another thought, or only see you as a decent person we've talked to before, but not what we'd term a valued friend.
    Okay, this all sounds like perfectly normal friendship to me. But apparently, for many people, it is not. So if I want to be a good friend to people who aren't like we low-contact folk I have to, like, answer their emails and contact them and stuff. If that's the case, it means I will be expending effort and energy . . . I barely do that with people I seriously adore. I just don't think of it most of the time because I'm all lost in my head. I simply cannot have many more friends if this is what is required. I don't have the energy to remember and work myself up to calling and/or writing. This is probably not good.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #30
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Don't impose a certain higher frequency of contact if it isn't warranted -- especially since that kind of thing is used to dissimulate an attempt to win a heart. I only correspond with one friend regularly, with others in short sequences if we happen to be working on a project. The rest catch up in their own time and, as posted above, it is as if no time has passed.

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