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  1. #61
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    If you're looking for INTs in the "party scene", you're looking in the wrong place.

    Of course society rewards ESF behaviour in females. Society is largely comprised of ESF females - how could it be otherwise? Why would any society reward individuals who have so little regard for it?

    I confess, women are something of a mystery to me. I don't enjoy their company or their conversation (although I don't know any female NTs). We have nothing in common, and I am conscious of their judgment which I find intolerable. When I was younger I was certain I should have been a boy, and all of my close friends are male, but usually men find me intimidating or weird or don't find me at all. And I'm too self-sufficient to be bothered.

    If so-called feminine attributes (nurturing, creating harmonious relationships/environments, domesticity etc) predominate in females because they are biologically adaptive, it follows that it is not (or has not been) biologically adaptive to be an NT female, for whom such behaviors are alien. Clearly, it is also not socially adaptive, and therefore we would not expect to see many NT females "running around".

    We are an aberration...but we wouldn't have it any other way...
    I disagree with this; IMO, xNTxs just do this with... a unique flavour and zeal and point of view?

    I wouldn't be surprised if xNTx females were a little less likely to procreate/want to be nurturing, but in my experience and watching, for example, my INTJ Biochemistry prof who is a mom of 4... it's just different. Something a lot of males aren't interested in, no doubt.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #62
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 563 740 View Post
    Lemme guess, "You just haven't met the right man yet?"


    Yeah, pretty much. I'm like, "who's that 'right man' then? You? Forget it, give me the pills."

    On a related note, last weekend this guy started hanging around me at the sheesha bar when I was out with my friends and asked me for my number. He was, as I just described in another thread, another member of the "socially anxious but self-righteous and a know-it-all" clan that is all too familiar to me (clan...who am I, you're female cross-cousin? ::tsching:: -bad anthropology joke). I knew early on I knew I wasn't interested (he reminded me strongly of other types I've known who, if you show them any friendliness, get super clingy), but since he was sitting there and I didn't want to ignore him, I talked to him for a while. After we leave, my friends ask me what I thought, and when I told them my opinion, they started telling me that I was probably being too judgemental and that I should get to know him better. It felt like, "ZiL, you got a guy to come right up to you and you're not going to marry him?!!" (exaggeration, obviously).

    But anyway, I've noticed that whenever I show decisiveness about my intention to not date a guy who has given me attention, I always get chided for being too cold. I haven't seen a lot of guys get that sort of response for being decisive about a girl.

  3. #63
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiL View Post
    Yeah, pretty much. I'm like, "who's that 'right man' then? You? Forget it, give me the pills."

    On a related note, last weekend this guy started hanging around me at the sheesha bar when I was out with my friends and asked me for my number. He was, as I just described in another thread, another member of the "socially anxious but self-righteous and a know-it-all" clan that is all too familiar to me (clan...who am I, you're female cross-cousin? ::tsching:: -bad anthropology joke). I knew early on I knew I wasn't interested (he reminded me strongly of other types I've known who, if you show them any friendliness, get super clingy), but since he was sitting there and I didn't want to ignore him, I talked to him for a while. After we leave, my friends ask me what I thought, and when I told them my opinion, they started telling me that I was probably being too judgemental and that I should get to know him better. It felt like, "ZiL, you got a guy to come right up to you and you're not going to marry him?!!" (exaggeration, obviously).

    But anyway, I've noticed that whenever I show decisiveness about my intention to not date a guy who has given me attention, I always get chided for being too cold. I haven't seen a lot of guys get that sort of response for being decisive about a girl.
    Ha! Yeah, I remember this incident a couple of years ago where I was asked out by someone who I just really didn't find attractive...nor did I know him. I was working and he came up to me and asked for my number, if I'd like to do anything and blah blah blah, and I rejected him flatly (not in a mean way, but with the stern voice of resolution). After he left, my co-worker came up to me and asked "what's wrong with you? You know that getting asked out is a good thing, right?" It's as though I should have thanked my lucky stars that some guy was paying attention to me.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #64
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Most girls I seem to meet are SF's, as well as E's. The party scene is literally littered with them. Not that there aren't a lot of cool ESF's, but I sure wouldn't mind more INT's or NT's in general running around.

    Do any of you think society rewards female ESF behavior over that of the INT? I am also wondering how rare they are in reality, I haven't found any stats on the issue.
    I don't know any stats, but I've barely met any NT girls. (And I have crushes on most of them, lol.)

    My ex is ENTP, my roomate is ENTP, and one of my best friends, who was my friend's girlfriend for a while, is INTJ. (I shadily hooked up with her a few weeks ago )

    Haven't met any INTP girls since high school, and I don't know if I've ever met an ENTJ girl.

  5. #65
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Well, under every NT, there's an SF shadow...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #66
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    Well, I am an NT female and it's no news to me that there are very few of us or that we are definitely oddities by society's standards.

    I can say that as a young girl I was a straight up, unself-conscious NT. As a teen and young woman, I definitely maintained two personalities. I hung around with the intellectuals who liked to think, but I also wanted to be part of the football games and social groups. In college, I always got the feedback that I was just too intense. Although, one of my sorority (yes sorority!) sisters said to me, "If other people got to know you, I think they'd like you."

    Now I have many women friends, but I enjoy conversations with men much more. They are just more likely to engage in a conversation about something other than children and families. I have always felt that my personality was half feminine and half masculine.

    I have always struggled with being too direct and too deep -- two things that put off most people. Accordingly, I have learned to consider almost every word I say. I value my independence and freedom to be myself, but not if it hurts other people (even if they are being overly sensitive for god's sake!).

    I love being an NT mom. I am not hovering or overly nuturing, it's true, and I am more likely to tell my kids they can make that sandwich themselves! They are both competent and have had to learn to be independent.

    Since I enjoy being a leader and being around other people, I have developed strategies that allow me to be more successful. I always try to make sure that when I am leading, I have more empathic people there who can give me input on the touchy feely side of the meeting. I have come to value their skills.

    So I would say, yes, NT females are rare. Yes, we sometimes go in camouflage. No, we can't totally hide NTness. Yes, we are considered odd and different. Yes, at least I feel I have a lot of masculine qualities. Yes, we're pretty interesting.

  7. #67
    HUZZAH! Bougal's Avatar
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    I grew up in a home with a disgruntled and fairly overbearing ESFJ mother. From a very young age, my brash style of communication made her explode emotionally, so I learned to avoid these out lashes by acting more passive, and superficially caring about other’s emotions, even though I have never seen them as being very valid. Because of this change, my true personality was fairly suppressed for a good portion of my childhood. I developed a façade of being a social ENFJ to soften my outspoken, opinionated tendencies. A couple of years ago I became a trial attorney for Mock Trial, and my true personality resurfaced, but I am in awkward state of being a natural ENTJ that has be nurtured to be a feeler.

    I think that society’s expectations and stereotypes of femininity make life hard for most NT women, but even more so for an ENTJ women . When a man is an ENTJ, he is respected as a strong leader; when a woman is an ENTJ she is seen as being a domineering bitch. I must say, this stereo typing has always really bothered me. Has anyone had a hard time coping with it in their activities?

  8. #68
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    Yes, Bougal, I have.
    Last edited by Fiver; 09-30-2008 at 10:13 PM.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    This week was rather heavy on the socialisation in the uni milieu and I have to say I thought it was hilarious the way women are reduced to their femininity there...and clearly E behaviour (and trying to get and maintain the attention of a male) was what was expected.

    The contrast with my courses (I think mostly INs - mainly reduction to brain there :p ) was huge!

  10. #70
    Mud and rain and chaos... TickTock's Avatar
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    Society is dumb as s**t, and generally misinformed. Prone to mas hysteria and sheep like mentality. Often with views founded on rumor and hearsay, somewhat akin to the blind following the blind. It's not really a good idea to use society as a measuring stick.

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