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  1. #41
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    People want you to be softer, less opinionated, less sarcastic, more supportive and maternal. They want you to care about concepts less and social activities more. They want you to spend your whole life dreaming of marriage and children, and pity you if you don't.
    But it goes beyond pity. It is as if just being yourself is an affront to them and their values. So you need to be fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    the only time i'll consciously morph into who i'm talking to is when i'm in a business situation, or any other similar situation, where it's to my benefit (or a loved one's benefit) to play along and my detriment not to. i just do my best to keep those situations at a minimum for happiness' sake.
    Ditto. It's too taxing to do it a whole lot more than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    We never talked about crushes or relationships or fashion. We basically just tried to make each other laugh by mocking things/people and taking the weirdest or most perverted or meanest conversational tangents possible. We knew nothing of each others personal/emotional lives and we didn't care.
    Sounds very familiar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    My work appreciates my N but the T clashes with peoples expectations of females.
    I don't know if it's just when coupled with N, but the T over the F is definitely the source of gender-based friction in my experience. I doubt, e.g. that ISTx women have a greater advantage over INTx women than INFx do in the "fulfills gender expectations" race.
    Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
    The More You Know the Less You Need. - Aboriginal Saying

  2. #42
    Senior Member norepinephrine's Avatar
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    I've only met only two other NT females that I could type. Both were coworkers. Both were hard to get to know. In fact, were we not forced to be together day after day I doubt I would have befriended either.

    That has given me some insight regarding how I probably come off to others.

    But it was a relief to move into a job where I wasn't automatically "the bitch" because that slot was already taken. In contrast, I was all sweetness and light.

    And I have trained myself, over the years, to remember and revisit the events occuring in other peoples' lives. As in, "So how was your daughter's first day in middle school."

    Regarding being a parent...I spent a large portion of pregnancy digesting volumes of literature telling me how to parent - particularly that involving a single mother raising a male. And eventually said 'screw it, I'm not raising a boy, I'm raising a human.'

    He grew into an entp. Quirky, stubborn, often irritating, and endlessly amusing. Worth having a conversation with. And has informed me (often when I was on the verge of leaping off the proverbial cliff) that I am the most independent person that he's ever known.

  3. #43
    Senior Member 563 740's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiL View Post
    One of my male friends, he's an ISFJ, still doesn't believe I really am who I am. He thinks I'm just temporarily deluded from the true path of womanhood, and that I'll get back on track eventually. Doesn't matter how many times I tell him he's an idiot .
    Lemme guess, "You just haven't met the right man yet?"

    Extremes: Need To Pursue

    I like my cars fast, my music loud, and my women even faster and louder!

  4. #44
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I was lucky to have a core group of NT/NF girls as friends in high school. I never have been a "hang with the guys" girl, b/c I don't like to do guy things, and I hate sports, etc. But several of my very closest friends over the years have been guys, individually. But it's true, as an NT woman, I really don't naturally think to ask about others' personal lives, and I always find it invasive when strangers or acquaintances ask about mine. Also, I never know how to answer stuff like that. I don't spend a lot of time in the present moment, so I have to stop and think about what's actually, physically going on in my life to answer their questions.

    I know I'm not easy to get to know, and I'm okay with that. I don't have the energy to spend getting to know every person I come in contact with. I figure if we don't hit it off right away, who knows? Maybe months or years later, we might come up with some common ground. Why force it? And it's okay if we don't. Basically, if we don't hit it off right away, how about we just let each other be? I won't try to fix you, and you won't try to fix me. Why can't people be happy with that?

  5. #45
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norepinephrine View Post
    I've only met only two other NT females that I could type. Both were coworkers. Both were hard to get to know. In fact, were we not forced to be together day after day I doubt I would have befriended either.
    That's how it is for me. In fact, when I graduated from high school, I remember many of my "friends" telling me (in the form of yearbook signing) that I was a nice and funny person, and that they wished they had gotten to know me better. And these are people I was constantly around for four (and for some, eight or more) years.

    I think people expect you (especially if you're female) to be more personable and self-disclosing, even if it's not in a maternal or bubbly sort of way. If you just really aren't good at dealing with people -

    (and by this I mean the following: it doesn't naturally occur to you to ask people if they need help with something, you are unable to console others in their times of emotional need, conversation is awkward unless you're discussing something impersonal, general reticence when it comes to divulging personal information, lack of smiles, unable to rain warm regard on other people, even if you feel it, and so on)

    - then it's like you're a worthless person, or that anything else you do well is worth less because of it. It's like "well, Orangey, you are really smart and have great ideas, but you should really work on your people skills." And I think that while everybody who is not naturally social experiences this to a degree, I do think that it's worse for women. A guy can get away with compartmentalizing their talents (i.e., "well, he's kind of an asshole but he's really good at X, Y, Z), but women are judged on a kind of total level, where it's not their skill at any particular thing that's important, but their overall worthiness as a person (which their particular skill may adorn, but could never determine).

    This is just my perception BTW, so none of it may actually be true .
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #46
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Today - when I was in the shower (personal detail!) - I realised how effing impossible I must be to many people due to my very independent nature. It simply doesn't occur to me to ask for help or communicate any issues I might have or communicate about other people's personal details.

  7. #47
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    NT women dont exist. We are a sub species for sure.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    How hard society is on an NT female depends entirely on who she associates with.

    I have a feeling that it'd be hardest on INTP females. INTJs... not so much.
    INTJs are crackpots,all facts which don't fit their theories are just wrong. The more all-encompassing and less applicable to reality the theories, the better.Especially INTJ females,only a few people could bear them.

    I haven't meet any INTJ females as far.
    Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the more often and steadily we reflect upon them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me. --Kant

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  9. #49
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Um what

    "INTJs are crackpots... Especially INTJ females"
    "I haven't meet any INTJ females"

    Kay.

  10. #50
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish_Cats View Post
    INTJs are crackpots,all facts which don't fit their theories are just wrong. The more all-encompassing and less applicable to reality the theories, the better.Especially INTJ females,only a few people could bear them.

    I haven't meet any INTJ females as far.


    So, uh, why did you write this exactly?
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

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