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  1. #21
    Senior Member FallsPioneer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I'd venture to guess there's lots of xNTx females we've all met whom we didn't recognize as such, because they were both intelligent enough and socially skilled enough to know that "being themselves" would be more hassle than just flying under the radar for an evening or an event.
    I've met my fair share of highly socially inept NTs and I used to be one of them, but the interesting ones I know and knew didn't pass themselves off that way. It shows a willingness to explore other avenues and it also shows willpower to change. And it's not even the social ineptitude that bothers me so much as it is this thing where the really inept ones tend to be selfish and immature. But for the NT girls, it must be like letting out a deep sigh of relief.
    Still using a needle to break apart a grain of sand.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Surface conformism can take you lots of places. After time you learn to read where and with whom you can be yourself.

    I'd venture to guess there's lots of xNTx females we've all met whom we didn't recognize as such, because they were both intelligent enough and socially skilled enough to know that "being themselves" would be more hassle than just flying under the radar for an evening or an event.

    Yes. I've met a few NT females, and all but one of them have the ability to shift into a more socially acceptable "feminine" mantle.

    Learning to alternate between these personas has been an awkward process for me, but it's extremely socially beneficial - though it doesn't always work well in all contexts.

    For example, I still have trouble with certain guys (romantic prospects generally). My behavioral cycle: I come off as a little "softer" initially, and so guys get used to that. But as I become more comfortable around them, I start to act myself - a little more argumentative, I joke more...I don't become mean or cold or abrasive, just less traditionally "feminine." When they eventually realize I'm not the second coming of their mother, they get freaked out. Some might say I'm being disingenuous, but honestly, it's an unconscious process that's become natural out of social necessity for me. I act the same around females - a little more timid and girly at first - but as soon as I feel I can work my way into a niche, I act myself. With guys the transition isn't as smooth. One of my male friends, he's an ISFJ, still doesn't believe I really am who I am. He thinks I'm just temporarily deluded from the true path of womanhood, and that I'll get back on track eventually. Doesn't matter how many times I tell him he's an idiot .

    I do find that "NT" traits in females have a habit of being seen as odd - as an aberration that needs fixing. But if you have confidence and can navigate the social waters, I figure you'll be accepted eventually. But hopefully not as a loveable circus freak.

  3. #23
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiL View Post
    Yes. I've met a few NT females, and all but one of them have the ability to shift into a more socially acceptable "feminine" mantle.

    Learning to alternate between these personas has been an awkward process for me, but it's extremely socially beneficial - though it doesn't always work well in all contexts.

    For example, I still have trouble with certain guys (romantic prospects generally). My behavioral cycle: I come off as a little "softer" initially, and so guys get used to that. But as I become more comfortable around them, I start to act myself - a little more argumentative, I joke more...I don't become mean or cold or abrasive, just less traditionally "feminine." When they eventually realize I'm not the second coming of their mother, they get freaked out. Some might say I'm being disingenuous, but honestly, it's an unconscious process that's become natural out of social necessity for me. I act the same around females - a little more timid and girly at first - but as soon as I feel I can work my way into a niche, I act myself. With guys the transition isn't as smooth. One of my male friends, he's an ISFJ, still doesn't believe I really am who I am. He thinks I'm just temporarily deluded from the true path of womanhood, and that I'll get back on track eventually. Doesn't matter how many times I tell him he's an idiot .

    I do find that "NT" traits in females have a habit of being seen as odd - as an aberration that needs fixing. But if you have confidence and can navigate the social waters, I figure you'll be accepted eventually. But hopefully not as a loveable circus freak.
    I can relate to this. Also, I'm not impressed by the stuff that guys usually do to impress girls. Like, demonstrating what kind of stuff they can do, or bringing me things that "girls like." I always see myself as an equal, so I tend to meet them on that level, rather than going all gooey about someone's accomplishments. This confuses a lot of guys. I'm always just more impressed by the total package of someone's personality and brain, which just is something I like or isn't. There's not much you can do to impress me. I've noticed that's different from the other women I know.

  4. #24
    Senior Member dnivera's Avatar
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    My surgeon is one (ENTJ).

    So are several of my favorite professors (INTJ), and my financial advisor.
    Si>Ti>Te>Ne>Fe>Ni>Fi>Se

    Introverted (I) 60% Extroverted (E) 40%
    Sensing (S) 56.25% Intuitive (N) 43.75%
    Thinking (T) 61.29% Feeling (F) 38.71%
    Judging (J) 71.88% Perceiving (P) 28.13%

  5. #25
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    ENTJ "girl" here, actually woman. Married to an ESTJ. President of a Polyurethane and Compression Rubber Plant, one of 2 women who work in the plant.

    Never felt a need to be softer, nicer, but having 2 kids made me somewhat kinder and gentler.

    Men like me and I like men because I can think like them and talk like them.

  6. #26
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    The other thing is that people (in my experience, xSFJ females) can get super clingy when they hear you make a wry comment or very non-standard observation about something... they treat you like a new toy and ask you questions you don't want to answer, or constantly will contrast your opinion with a "normal person's opinion" and will choose contrary to whatever position you hold because they see you as "not normal."

    That's just a headache I hate dealing with.

    ....
    Or is this just me?
    I don't experience the super-clingy aspect of this, but the rest I relate to, especially at work. I've recently realised I'm way more comfortable chatting to most of the guys at work - they almost never give me the 'wtf did you just say' look that I tend to get from most of the women I work with when the blending-in-mask slips.

    Outside of work, most of my female friends are not particularly feminine and now that I think about it, they nearly all work in areas that are somewhat male-dominated (eg engineering, physics, computing etc). I fit in with them a lot better than with the women I work with.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    So in effect my participation by relating my experience can very much verify that yes, society is mean to NT females!!
    I think in a technical career it's not as bad, people respect raw intelligence and competence. (And I'm also starting to realize that women in my tech field get judged a little harsher, it seems to me that a guy who is marginal in talent is not judged as bad as a woman who is marginal...especially if she's pretty. It's like if you're pretty, it almost goes against you; the way the guys talk about that sort of woman, they think they've only gotten that far because of their looks).

    In any case, I know I feel bad because I'm simply not as "coddly" and emotionally fluffy like many of the women I've met in my life, I feel harder and more aloof and not prone to run after people and try to make them feel better IRL... at least not with people I'm in personal relationships with. And I don't always feel comfortable in every woman's circle, if they're just gossiping and crap; some of the stuff that would get talked about just drives me nuts.

    I'm glad I know NT women here because I do not feel like I'm an anomaly then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I can relate to this. Also, I'm not impressed by the stuff that guys usually do to impress girls. Like, demonstrating what kind of stuff they can do, or bringing me things that "girls like." I always see myself as an equal, so I tend to meet them on that level, rather than going all gooey about someone's accomplishments. This confuses a lot of guys. I'm always just more impressed by the total package of someone's personality and brain, which just is something I like or isn't. There's not much you can do to impress me. I've noticed that's different from the other women I know.
    I'm impressed by a guy's (1) character, (2) intelligence, (3) humor, and (4) sensitivity to others. And not the social flotsam, as you are saying. I'm looking for specific acts of understanding and sensitivity and how he treats people. The other stuff bores me.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Then again, look at how much "more common" it is.
    Not really that much more at all.
    According to the second post ENTP females are about three times more common than either INTJ or ENTJ females.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member edel weiss's Avatar
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    A lot of my friends call me 'tin hearted', with a hard interior that is waiting to be cracked... I've had some male acquaintances shake their heads at me and tell me that I need some 'romance' to 'soften me up'.

    I've had this experience only for the past 2-3 years, though. Before that, I was vaguely aware that classmates found me strange and relatives thought I was 'different'.


    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    The other thing is that people (in my experience, xSFJ females) can get super clingy when they hear you make a wry comment or very non-standard observation about something... they treat you like a new toy and ask you questions you don't want to answer, or constantly will contrast your opinion with a "normal person's opinion" and will choose contrary to whatever position you hold because they see you as "not normal."
    Yes! People are either very wary of me or they're extremely intrigued by me.

    Just yesterday, a girl I know started off telling me about how cool she thinks I am, and if I'd been born 100 years ago she'd be reading about me in he history books. Flattering as it was, it got embarrassing after awhile.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I have never known any in person.
    I knew at least two [female ENTP], in high school. They were both assholes. I wouldn't say bitches, because of the masculine quality to their vileness. They were funny though.

    From my experience and from what I've been told, women like me are pretty unique. I think most of the girl friends I had throughout middle school and high school were NTs or at least Ts and our conversations seemed atypical for girls. We never talked about crushes or relationships or fashion. We basically just tried to make each other laugh by mocking things/people and taking the weirdest or most perverted or meanest conversational tangents possible. We knew nothing of each others personal/emotional lives and we didn't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Do any of you think society rewards female ESF behavior over that of the INT? I am also wondering how rare they are in reality, I haven't found any stats on the issue.
    I think so, but the nice thing about being the 'wrong kind of T' is that I'm still a T, so I'll still care about social pressure less than any feeler, even if they're the 'right kind of feeler'. Yay!
    I don't wanna!

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