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  1. #41
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lymitra View Post
    As much as your post resonated with me, I doubt it is a specifically INTJ phenomenon. Feeling lonely is more like a human thing. It tells you that you are in touch with your emotions and that there is a divide between your inner self and outer environment. Sadly, I don't think it can be remedied unless one can fully integrate oneself into the outer world, where the inner and outer selves become one. It's hard to explain.

    I feel the least lonely when I can be myself around other people. It's similar to that sensation of being so alive when I've surpassed my personal boundaries and fears and am just taking wild chances without knowing how they will turn out. When I feel completely true to who I am, even small talk loses its usual emptiness. I found out, surprisingly, that I actually really like people and enjoy getting to know them, the fact that I felt so alone in the midst of them was because I wouldn't allow myself to simply be me. I was trying to "fit a square into a circle," living by others' standards and trying to communicate their way. Never worked out.

    As for finding someone to have an in depth conversation with, I don't think I've ever found such a person. How can I expect the other person to know what I'm interested in? There is no way they can know or figure out what engages me intellectually and emotionally. I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I find my answer to emptiness in talking to strangers and letting people surprise me.

    I'm beginning to think it's an NT thing.

    I used to have a best friend who was my soul mate.
    Her friendship
    to me was indescribable.
    She was an ISFJ, but unfortunately an unhealthy one, and we parted ways after 3 years.

    "letting people surprise me" is something I am only now learning to do.

  2. #42
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I was studying enneagram types the other day and the fours struggle with this.
    That probably explains why I have a problem with it.

  3. #43
    Senior Member BlackOp's Avatar
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    Are we any less alone than those whose who appear unaffected?...or does the ability to conceptualize social rituals as they happen "hamstring" us? Its the price of pragmatism....maybe we are looking too hard for answers in the wrong places. Is love idealistic and many times an act of desperation? Is the ability to admit and suffer this reality what makes us so strong? Most types dont think this way...or block it out.
    "A species of perfection and fantasy"......

  4. #44
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    Clearly, I'm not an INTJ, but I don't want to start a new thread when this one will do.

    Can you explain what you mean by loneliness?

    Some people are talking about emptiness, being alone, being different, not being understood, is that all it is, or is there more?

    I can't decide if I've never been lonely, or always have.

    It's really the same thing isn't it? We can only understand what it means to be one way if we at some point haven't been? If we've always lived in the dark, the concept of dark would have no meaning. Things only take on meaning when they are thrown into relief against something else.

    I see being alone and being different in a positive light. Even not being understood has its advantages ("I live in fear of not being misunderstood" Oscar Wilde). Emptiness is not good, but I don't see that as having much to do with other people. Other people can't fill you up in anything other than superficial ways.

    I'm very familiar with a craving for being alone, but I can't say I ever crave being with others. Occasionally, I think, I'm bored, perhaps I need to get out and meet people. But when I do, I am universally disappointed by the experience, which suggests that what I was feeling was not loneliness, merely boredom.

    Am I really weird or completely out-of-touch with my own feelings?

    Or is loneliness really just a label applied to an existential discontent which we want someone else to fix for us?

  5. #45
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Nobody answered me! pfffnaw!

    "Mother Hubbard was old, alone and a widow - a friendless, solitary widow.
    Yet - did she despair? Did she sit down and weep, or wring her hands? No!
    She went to the cupboard." - Lord Desart

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I can't decide if I've never been lonely, or always have.

    Am I really weird or completely out-of-touch with my own feelings?

    Or is loneliness really just a label applied to an existential discontent which we want someone else to fix for us?
    I was waiting for an answer too, you described me as well. I may feel low sometimes or melancholy, but I've never really felt the overpowering 'loneliness' described in this thread.

    I think that the loneliness isn't about basic interaction with people, but instead is a craving for a deep intimate connection with another person. So if you don't crave that kind of bond you won't ever feel the loneliness, or if you can't create that kind of bond with someone on a deep level you will always feel lonely and not know why. This is why people sometimes feel lonely in a sea of people, it isn't people you crave but a deep connection. Loneliness and being alone are not the same at all.

    In my case, because I have those kind of bonds, I just don't feel lonely. Even though I am alone most of the time, I still feel connected with the people in my life. I don't even have to see them for a while. The connection 'fills me up' and I never feel lonely even though I spend a lot of time alone.

  7. #47
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Clearly, I'm not an INTJ, but I don't want to start a new thread when this one will do.

    Can you explain what you mean by loneliness?

    Some people are talking about emptiness, being alone, being different, not being understood, is that all it is, or is there more?

    I can't decide if I've never been lonely, or always have.

    It's really the same thing isn't it? We can only understand what it means to be one way if we at some point haven't been? If we've always lived in the dark, the concept of dark would have no meaning. Things only take on meaning when they are thrown into relief against something else.

    I see being alone and being different in a positive light. Even not being understood has its advantages ("I live in fear of not being misunderstood" Oscar Wilde). Emptiness is not good, but I don't see that as having much to do with other people. Other people can't fill you up in anything other than superficial ways.

    I'm very familiar with a craving for being alone, but I can't say I ever crave being with others. Occasionally, I think, I'm bored, perhaps I need to get out and meet people. But when I do, I am universally disappointed by the experience, which suggests that what I was feeling was not loneliness, merely boredom.

    Am I really weird or completely out-of-touch with my own feelings?

    Or is loneliness really just a label applied to an existential discontent which we want someone else to fix for us?
    I'll answer you, Luv.
    I wish I was better at explaining my feelings.

    I guess the loneliness and emptiness I feel is the opposite of having someone to share my innermost thoughts and feelings with, someone who understands what I'm saying and perhaps even shares similar thoughts and feelings, or perhaps, like Jennifer always does so beautifully, at least can explain myself to me.

    I deeply desire to be known. I can't tell you the comfort I derive from a comment or knowing look that proves someone knows me, understands me, and even loves me, because of or in spite of it.

    If I go too long without it, I begin to ache for it, like being hungry, but much deeper than that... like soul-hunger.

    It still feels inadequate. It's a desire for intimacy, I think.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I'll answer you, Luv.
    I wish I was better at explaining my feelings.

    I guess the loneliness and emptiness I feel is the opposite of having someone to share my innermost thoughts and feelings with, someone who understands what I'm saying and perhaps even shares similar thoughts and feelings, or perhaps, like Jennifer always does so beautifully, at least can explain myself to me.

    I deeply desire to be known. I can't tell you the comfort I derive from a comment or knowing look that proves someone knows me, understands me, and even loves me, because of or in spite of it.

    If I go too long without it, I begin to ache for it, like being hungry, but much deeper than that... like soul-hunger.

    It still feels inadequate. It's a desire for intimacy, I think.
    This might be a 4 thing as well, since I'm also INTJ/4>5. (as I recently discovered)

    There are only a few people that I know who can tell how I'm feeling without me saying anything. My sister, one of my friends I've known since first grade... maybe a co-worker friend.

    I really connect to this sentiment:

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I deeply desire to be known. I can't tell you the comfort I derive from a comment or knowing look that proves someone knows me, understands me, and even loves me, because of or in spite of it.

    If I go too long without it, I begin to ache for it, like being hungry, but much deeper than that... like soul-hunger.
    I feel like I've been without this for a very long time now and I can tell when it starts to take a toll on me. Physically, mentally, emotionally I feel simply... dissatisfied. Not unhappy or depressed really, just a kind of restless need for something I can't seem to find.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  9. #49
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    It could be a four thing.

  10. #50
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I'll answer you, Luv.
    I wish I was better at explaining my feelings.

    I guess the loneliness and emptiness I feel is the opposite of having someone to share my innermost thoughts and feelings with, someone who understands what I'm saying and perhaps even shares similar thoughts and feelings, or perhaps, like Jennifer always does so beautifully, at least can explain myself to me.

    I deeply desire to be known. I can't tell you the comfort I derive from a comment or knowing look that proves someone knows me, understands me, and even loves me, because of or in spite of it.

    If I go too long without it, I begin to ache for it, like being hungry, but much deeper than that... like soul-hunger.

    It still feels inadequate. It's a desire for intimacy, I think.
    Thanks for that. I guess I just don't know how that feels.

    I wonder if this is an Fi/Fe thing or unrelated to type?

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