User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 37

  1. #11
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    InTP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp
    Socionics
    INTj Ni
    Posts
    2,652

    Default

    Like buying a car? I went through this last January so I still remember most of it-

    Very logical progression, using prior experience with specifying technical design/etc. like I do at work.

    1. What are my needs?
    1a. All-wheel-drive for accelerative traction
    1b. Roomy enough to hold my fat-ass
    1c. Roomy enough to hold my friends
    1d. Price brand new <$24K
    2. Prioritize those needs
    2a. Price brand new <$24K
    2b. Roomy enough to hold my fat ass
    2c. AWD
    2d. Roomy enough to hold my friends
    3. Reliability?
    3a. Prior experience tells me Japanese vehicles usually have great track records.
    4. Brand?
    4a. Subaru. Cheap AWD, Japanese, and a buddy of mine swears by him (well, his parents do, but him by extension). Here I'm diverging from logic a tad and going by word-of-mouth alone.
    5. Line up financing and find the best deal
    5a. Line up financing. I shuffled money around and applied for one of those "blank check" type of online auto financing things.
    5b. Locate local dealerships. I used edmunds.com to field a bunch of request-for-quotes for all the nearby Subaru dealerships.
    5c. Test drive different Subaru models, evaluate specific features and perform non-linear shoot-from-the-hip logic. This is where everything turns blurry and I logically evaluate the different featuresets--presence of limited-slip differential, hill holder features, rough "feel" for the acceleration (determined by test driving), feel of the vehicle's handling (determined by test driving), etc.
    6. Select ideal model and narrow the search.
    6a. Subaru Forester has the ideal set of features and at the right price. Found a dealership in Leesport, PA that was practically throwing a brand new one at me (knocked the price down a lot without me even asking; the dude was extremely straightforward with everything, no bullshit, honestly I think I was dealing with an INTJ or maybe ISTJ there [based on other factors I observed during the purchasing process]... he was cool.)
    7. Execute the purchase
    7a. Arranged the time to test drive & purchase, dressed nicely, put together a binder with damned near everything I could possibly ever need with me--full breakout of all Subaru models & full specifications, price quotes from all the local dealerships, a full copy of my credit report, printout of all available incentives, map to all the local dealerships (in case this one didn't pan out I'd know how to get to the next one), title information for my current car, kelley blue book printout for my current car, etc.
    intp | type 9w1 sp/sx/so

  2. #12
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Do you ever do things without thinking about/caring about whether or not it's logical?

    Do you consider people's feelings because in your mind it's logical or just because you don't want to hurt them?
    Sometimes though it *is* logical to hurt people, and it's in their best interest to do so. Like when somebody is deluded, or when they need to be told something they don't want to hear. But criticism always hurts, however constructive it is; it wouldn't be logical however to refrain from ever giving it simply to avoid hurting. Doesn't help the boss or the staff in the long run.

    I guess what you're asking seems to me to be something along the lines of "can people really care about other people without empathy?" to which my answer is a firm "yes!" I've seen sympathy dismissed here as some kind of inferior cousin of empathy, but I don't feel this to be the case. In many ways sympathy can be just as, if not more, constructive than empathy. When I see somebody is in a bad situation and by either referencing my own experience or using my imagination, or a combination of both, I'm moved to sympathy for them and this causes me to want to alleviate their situation, it's easier to do this if my own actions and judgement aren't clouded by actually feeling the other person's emotions as well as my own.

    Like entropie said, Thinkers don't lose the ability to feel the minute they're 'diagnosed' as Thinkers in the MBTI system. Everyone uses all of the 16 functions, MBTI only tells us which ones we default to if given no reason to do otherwise.

    I've seen mothers giving eyewitness accounts of their own children being mutilated and killed in front of them in Darfur (and years ago, at Sarajevo when I worked with refugees then too), and I've felt like crying, too, because I'm so angry that this is allowed to happen, and because I despair because, logically, I know it always will. But I've not allowed myself to cry in front of the other person because, logically, I've understood that this wouldn't help them.

    So in short, yes I'm as capable of caring as any Feeler. But how something reaches me, what I decide to do about it and why tend to be mainly logic based; through thinking about what would be the most effective in bringing the situation as close to ideal as possible.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #13
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,741

    Default

    ^ Excellent post I think you captured it perfectly. Logic is always in the background influencing every action. If I feel something strongly like that I'll override the internal reasoning thats going on and react in as controlled a manner as I can.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    xNTJ
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Does everything go through the filter of logic for you? Or just most things?

    For instance, being humane...if you consider yourself to be humane are you humane for the sake of being humane or because in your mind it's the most logical way to be or both?
    What filter?

    Honestly, I don't have a filter. I don't look at things in terms of "is it logical to do this?" or any other way. That requires a certain artificiality that I don't possess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Do you ever do things without thinking about/caring about whether or not it's logical?

    Do you consider people's feelings because in your mind it's logical or just because you don't want to hurt them?
    I never think in terms of logical or illogical for my actions, unless it's because I have to explain my actions or justify them.

    How much I consider people's feelings, in all honesty, depends on how much I care about that person. If I make a decision that will impact my husband or my son, I may take their feelings into account. I want them to be happy; when they are not happy, it is not conducive to a peaceful household.

    However, when my decisions are for business purposes, I do not take feelings into account beyond how much those feelings will effect the bottom line. (That includes retention of employees and employee performance. If they are miserable, their performance will suffer. But I have to evaluate whether that will be a short term misery or a long term misery that would go beyond growing pains.)

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    This is a more intresting question. My answer would be, I really want to act in a way to not hurt peoples feelings but most of the times I even did not recognize that I just did hurt someones feelings.

    It is with me, more a lack of experience with feelings, if you put it that way
    This. I don't understand why people get upset over a lot of the things that they do, and I really have a hard time telling when I've hurt someone's feelings unless they are crying, screaming, or tell me point-blank that I've done so.

    It's not that I don't care about people's feelings. I just don't understand them most of the time.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  5. #15
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    lol.

    What about the big things? The important things? Tell me about your descision making process.
    I use thinking to make decisions most of the time, because it is easier for me, it's more precise, and thinking is better at achieving goals. However I usually rely more on feeling when making important decisions.

    In general I believe thinking is a poor process for telling you want should be important and how you should act in relation to the important things. This is where feeling is superior. However thinking is clearly superior in achieving goals. So my philosophy in life is to use feeling to set the goals and thinking to achieve them.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  6. #16
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ABCD
    Enneagram
    4 sx/so
    Socionics
    SEI
    Posts
    1,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Sometimes though it *is* logical to hurt people, and it's in their best interest to do so. Like when somebody is deluded, or when they need to be told something they don't want to hear. But criticism always hurts, however constructive it is; it wouldn't be logical however to refrain from ever giving it simply to avoid hurting. Doesn't help the boss or the staff in the long run.
    I wasn't asking about instances in which it's in the person's best interest to be hurt. And I wasn't implying that it's never logical to hurt people either.

    You said it was logical in that instance to hurt someone. Well it's also considerate. Because, like you said, it's in their best interest.

    So when you've done that in the past, given someone a little criticism because they needed it...what was your main motivation? If you don't mind my asking.

    I guess what you're asking seems to me to be something along the lines of "can people really care about other people without empathy?" to which my answer is a firm "yes!" I've seen sympathy dismissed here as some kind of inferior cousin of empathy, but I don't feel this to be the case. In many ways sympathy can be just as, if not more, constructive than empathy. When I see somebody is in a bad situation and by either referencing my own experience or using my imagination, or a combination of both, I'm moved to sympathy for them and this causes me to want to alleviate their situation, it's easier to do this if my own actions and judgement aren't clouded by actually feeling the other person's emotions as well as my own.
    No. That wasn't what I was getting at at all but it's still good to hear your thoughts anyway.

    I wanted to know if everything or mostly everything needed to be sifted through a filter of "Is it logical?" but reading people's responses that's not necessarily the case.




    Like entropie said, Thinkers don't lose the ability to feel the minute they're 'diagnosed' as Thinkers in the MBTI system. Everyone uses all of the 16 functions, MBTI only tells us which ones we default to if given no reason to do otherwise.

    I've seen mothers giving eyewitness accounts of their own children being mutilated and killed in front of them in Darfur (and years ago, at Sarajevo when I worked with refugees then too), and I've felt like crying, too, because I'm so angry that this is allowed to happen, and because I despair because, logically, I know it always will. But I've not allowed myself to cry in front of the other person because, logically, I've understood that this wouldn't help them.

    So in short, yes I'm as capable of caring as any Feeler. But how something reaches me, what I decide to do about it and why tend to be mainly logic based; through thinking about what would be the most effective in bringing the situation as close to ideal as possible.
    Of course you're as capable of caring as a feeler.

  7. #17
    / booyalab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,511

    Default

    Logic isn't a filter.
    I don't wanna!

  8. #18
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ABCD
    Enneagram
    4 sx/so
    Socionics
    SEI
    Posts
    1,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I use thinking to make decisions most of the time, because it is easier for me, it's more precise, and thinking is better at achieving goals. However I usually rely more on feeling when making important decisions.

    In general I believe thinking is a poor process for telling you want should be important and how you should act in relation to the important things. This is where feeling is superior. However thinking is clearly superior in achieving goals. So my philosophy in life is to use feeling to set the goals and thinking to achieve them.

    I agree. That's exactly what I do. What does that make me?

  9. #19
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ABCD
    Enneagram
    4 sx/so
    Socionics
    SEI
    Posts
    1,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Logic isn't a filter.
    You knew what I meant though, right?

    Uhhh errr *thinks about different ways of wording it*

  10. #20
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ABCD
    Enneagram
    4 sx/so
    Socionics
    SEI
    Posts
    1,040

    Default

    Standing as far back as you possibly can, looking at the big picture, what is the bottom line?

    What is your bottom line?


    Your bottom line for life.


    What is the point?

Similar Threads

  1. [INFP] Questions for INFPs about INFPs
    By marm in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 01-02-2010, 01:48 AM
  2. [MBTItm] Question for sensors?
    By SolitaryWalker in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 116
    Last Post: 03-12-2009, 03:30 AM
  3. [NF] Question for NFs.
    By SolitaryWalker in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 116
    Last Post: 02-09-2009, 01:24 AM
  4. A question for all
    By disregard in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-03-2007, 08:21 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO