[ENTJ] Do you consider ENTJs to be NTs ?

[Jetta]

There are two types of INTJs. I suppose the same goes for ENTJs.

Two major types of INTJ | myersandbriggs.tumblr | astroligion.com

 

[Pionart]

There are two types of INTJs. I suppose the same goes for ENTJs.

Two major types of INTJ | myersandbriggs.tumblr | astroligion.com

I'm actually not sure which one I would be. I put on many personas, but I have very strong morals.

I think the problem is that the usage of the word "morals" and my usage of the word morals are very much out of line here.

 

[Tater]

nts tend to view knowledge as an asset more than the other temperaments. however utilitarian they can be, entjs still carry this key feature. the few i've known were some of the most bookish people.

 

[Mr Troll]

Fine. I therefore decline your rights as a human... wait... close enough.

 

[Empyrean]

Well, you cannot judge the ENTJ type profile based on narcissists who choose erroneously to identify with it.

The difference between ENTJ and INTJ is much like the difference between ESTJ and ISTJ. I read somewhere the comparison that ISTJs value following rules, traditions, and established processes very closely, while ESTJs value getting others to follow them as well. An oversimplification, of course, but it has a few grains of truth. The Ni/Te (or Te/Ni) combination helps NTJs see the consequences of various options and find the best way of doing something. Having Te first seems to give the ENTJ the greater immediate drive to make that happen (make external reality conform to the vision). The INTJ in contrast is often more willing to let things unfold or let someone else take charge if it seems things are going in the general direction he/she wants. For the ENTJ, Ni provides the vision to direct the action he wants to take. For the INTJ, Te provides the means of realizing the vision she already has. It's a bit like the chicken/egg question, with each type having a different answer.


One of my close friends is an ENTJ and comes across exactly this way. She is very social in a networking sort of way, almost like a politician, though she is not in politics. She knows everyone in her neighborhood and takes part in numerous neighborhood/city improvement activities. She rescues stray dogs from the streets, even approaching neglectful owners to give the animals up (they do). If you talk with her, it doesn't take long to realize this all has nothing to do with Fe, and everything to do with wanting to take action in the world to make it more like her ideal.

This is very informative. Thanks!

 

[á´…eparted]

I tend to group types by ExxJ, IxxJ, ExxP, and IxxP. They tend to share the most in commom and similar presentation IMO. Same reason why I tend to think ENTJ's and ENFJ's are the odd ones out of their NF and NT grouping.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I tend to group types by ExxJ, IxxJ, ExxP, and IxxP. They tend to share the most in commom and similar presentation IMO. Same reason why I tend to think ENTJ's and ENFJ's are the odd ones out of their NF and NT grouping.

To be honest I do the same, such divide often makes sense in real life matters.

 

[Mr Troll]

There are 4 temperament categories in socionics: Ej (=EJ), Ij (=IP), Ep (=EP) and Ip (=IJ).

Socionics - the16types.info - Temperaments

 

[boomslang]

I think the MBTI ENTJ descriptions are way too infused with enneagram type 3 to be of any real use.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think the MBTI ENTJ descriptions are way too infused with enneagram type 3 to be of any real use.

If you don't mind I would add unhealthy 8s into the mix.

 

[Poki]

i think they are the most shallow in terms of NT. not shallow people overall. they just go more then they value NT.

 

[Zeldon]

Do you trully see ENTJs as NTs or as something a little bit separate ?


I am starting this thread because in my years of studying typology I have come over and over to the subtle conclusions around the internet that ENTJs are not considerent to be trully NTs.
You have NTPs, super intelligent scientific/philosophical people that make all kinds of ideas and inventions, you have INTJs that are ultra competent, private, very long range thinkers and then you have ENTJs (the narcissoid assholes)

The problem with such definitions is that ENTJ type may actually attract various power hungly assholes that may not be ENTJ at all. What will only proves the sterotype. On the other hand I have noticed that there is a number of ENTJs that define(d) themselves as some other type. (mostly as INTJs) This is especially true for people that are not Americans and are not so bound to the American capitalist thoughts. What makes the ENTJ possibly the most culturally biased type of all of them. In other words what ENTJ type represents often has completely different flavour than the rest of NTs. What is weird if we consider that in theory ENTJs are NTs.


When I type through function tests I come as Te dom but when I take a look at type profiles INTJ may fit me better in many in many ways. What is because NT nature of INTJ type is so much more expressed while in ENTJ you often have "great leaders, wantes success, avoids emo stuff, great leaders, wantes success, avoids emo stuff great leaders, wantes success, avoids emo stuff". What points to the fact that the ENTJ profiles are often much less developed than the profiles of other NTs. Similar can happen when I take 4 letter MBTI test since on such tests there is too strong correlation in E and very cheap Fe. However if you would twist the question like "Do you explore outdoors with your friends", "Do you debate people often and on purpose", "Do you notice holes in peoples logic as soon as they talk", "Do you tell other people what to do and they listen" etc. there would be whole different story. However on such tests in 90% of cases T is my strongest letter, when I vote for intuitive answer it is mostly correct but when I vote for T answer I trully align with almost all of such questions (and I am surrely a J). When I am physically healthy I test as slight extrovert since I am pretty ambiverted person, however 4 letter tests often don't really get the nature of my extroversion that is pretty goal oriented or practical ... especially when compared with Fe/Ne chat.


For 9 years I had struggles with this and only now when I managed to get my life back on track I finally came to agreement with myself that I am slightly mistyped due to cultural bias as well as very shallow profiles and the general concensus that ENTJs are not really NTs. What is wrong since ENTJ is basically nothing more than INTJ that has easier time engaging the environment (at the cost of internal life). Therefore bringing the political concepts into this is probably a bad idea since it creates bias. I find the fieldmarshal thing flatering and in RL relations with others I often come this way but I think this is too hostile definition, that can also be very hard to measure up to. It fits ENTJs that are Sx doms but it can be alienating to many that are not Sx doms ... even if they have a history of ENTJ scores.


Thought?

This is so true, I have had issues with being misplaced, and I have mistyped myself on several occasions.

 

[Norexan]

When I type through function tests I come as Te dom but when I take a look at type profiles INTJ

Same. I come as Te dom in two test and in one as Ni dom.

I think really problem is cuz Te function doesn't cere of understanding things but simple how to use things or how something is useful. INTJ are much more intellectual . after all this type call also the Scientist and all of that is because of subjective imagination or Ni as dominate functions. Also all INxx are philosophers and have extraordinarily ability of understanding! If you are more practical then theoretical , focus on power and money then you are not INTJ! INTJs are consensus about world but they don't do anything and if they do they don't want others to see it. The Grate scientist Nikola Tesla was INTJ and he died without money and power because as true INTJ he only bow to knowledge ,truth and peace..
INTx - understand things
INFx - understand people

 

[EnnisPreit]

ENTJs are not really separated in my mind, though the idea of their type is different than the idea of other NTs. They are more like a cross in between passionate, agressive ESTPs and geeky analytical NTs.

Exactly.

 

[adventureawaits]

I don't think ENTJs get enough credit, honestly. They can spin up theory like the rest of 'em, but then they can apply their ideas into actions. They also see the potential/possibility, like most other Ns, but they will then push that potential to become reality. This is why they have the reputation of being successful, powerful CEOs, etc... they envision the future and then make it happen.

I do think you need to get to know an ENTJ over time to see through the dominant Te. It actually took at least a solid year of being with my ENTJ ex to get deeper and realize there was a really fascinating brain underneath the tough exterior. Also, probably the most imaginative person I've met to date.

 

[Sacrophagus]

An ENTJs self esteem is usually depending on how others (society) perceive that they are achievers or that they aren't. If an ENTJ notices that the people around him/her think he/she is a loser, would mind the most between the NTs. Followed by INTJ, ENTP, INTP, in my opinion. That's why they can become alienated, doing things they don't really care, just to avoid being losers.

You can cross the people who fit your description as ENTJs.
ENTJs' love for themselves and the respect they have for themselves allows them to love others as well, prompt them ahead, and nurture them to reach their potential. With that being said, our validation never comes from others. Our validation comes from within.
We couldn't give a rat's ass about what society thinks as the norm. We, create the norm we want, no matter the price. The shackles are only a a creation of your own mind. If you choose to put your deep desires at a halt because of unmitigated overthinking about its repercussions on your surroundings, then you willingly choose to be a slave, and it takes no effort nor strength to be and stay a slave.
ENTJs are lions, and a lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of sheep. A lion roams as a king wherever he may choose.