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  1. #51
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I got so overwhelmed by knowing an INTJ seeing my outside world. Thank you soo much, you have made my day
    Watches weak T preference assert strong dominance in an effort to clarify rather than keep harmony

    I meant that extraverted functions are more visible than intraverted functions, just by their very nature. I meant that It's a lot easier to see a preference for intuition if the xNxx is an xNxP (because it's extraverted) just like it's a lot easier to see a preference for task-oriented thinking if the xxTx preference is xxTJ (because it's extraverted).

    I was attempting to point out that the T-preference you dislike in INTJs is external and visible and part of their way of interacting with the outside world, and INTPs' T preference is internal, so you not seeing that means that you don't know any INTPs very well to get to their inside world of Ti.

    Our Ni inside world/way of being as INTJs is analogous to the INTPs outside world/way of interacting with Ne. There are distinct differences, but it's fair to say that the INTJs will become less rigid and more playful the more you get to know them, and INTPs will become less playful and more rigid the more you get to know them. I don't mean rigid in any sort of pejorative term, only illustrating the task-as-opposed-to people oriented xxTx preference as being impersonal.

    What did YOU mean by your responses? It appears we were talking past each other.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #52
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    [SIZE="1"]

    I was attempting to point out that the T-preference you dislike in INTJs is external and visible and part of their way of interacting with the outside world, and INTPs' T preference is internal, so you not seeing that means that you don't know any INTPs very well to get to their inside world of Ti.
    I never said I dislike T-preference.

    What mostly is visible of INTJ's is their internal world or internal agenda. They have a rigid view on the world, they made up for themselves. When they actually show Te-ness that is a relieve. Cause then you can actually talk to them, because you can tell them something new, through logically convincing them. Most of the times convincing a INTJ is a very long process. And it is primarily the INTJ convincining himself in the end, not you him. So it is more Ni that shines with them not Te.

    What you say about INTP I completly did not get. Ti means analysis. You just have to read one sentence of an INTP and you have gotten to his Ti in 90% of the cases. You have to rephrase that, it isnt clear to me.

    Our Ni inside world/way of being as INTJs is analogous to the INTPs outside world/way of interacting with Ne. There are distinct differences, but it's fair to say that the INTJs will become less rigid and more playful the more you get to know them, and INTPs will become less playful and more rigid the more you get to know them. I don't mean rigid in any sort of pejorative term, only illustrating the task-as-opposed-to people oriented xxTx preference as being impersonal.
    I find it unfair of you that you relate primary Ni of INTJ to secondary Ne of INTP, just because you like to. It makes no sense, the Ne of INTP is exactly like the Ne of ENTP. It is in no way analogues to Ni. This is just a personal opinion.

    For when it comes to what you say about INTJ that can be personal. Well ok. I can make a jump too, it is more about doing than talking.

    What did YOU mean by your responses? It appears we were talking past each other.

    Well I did not want to go that deep, I just found it loveable that an INTJ is intrested in other peoples outer worlds. But if you want it, you can have it.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #53
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Entropie, I wasn't attacking you at all. I value your thoughts. I was only trying to communicate with you, and it seems I wasn't doing a very good job. That's all. I genuinely didn't understand.

    Now reading this, I see where we are different:

    You said,
    They [INTJs] have a rigid view on the world
    where I was working on the understanding that you knew this about us, quoted from personalitypage.com
    Others may falsely perceive the INTJ as being rigid and set in their ways. Nothing could be further from the truth
    I was trying to assert that you're seeing Te here. I was trying to assert that INTJs are actually (generally, at least the healthy INTJs) quite playful and fun people once you get to the Ni. INTJs don't have a rigid view of the world. They have an external Thinking function. They use their logic in the external world, so you can sit there and actually watch us using our T preference.

    And conversely, INTPs have an internal Thinking function. You can't watch their Ti occur--it's done in their head, in private. They force structure upon and try to organize and understand using their thinking function in their heads. You don't see it on the outside (meaning, any one person as an outsider) until you know someone very well.

    I find it unfair of you that you relate primary Ni of INTJ to secondary Ne of INTP, just because you like to. It makes no sense, the Ne of INTP is exactly like the Ne of ENTP.
    I don't understand what you're saying here. I, too, believe the Ne of the INTP is the same as the ENTP.
    Regarding comparing Ni to Ne, I said
    There are distinct differences
    Generally speaking though, an iNtuitive function is more fun than a thinking function.

    But if you want it, you can have it.
    Entropie, I wasn't trying to pick a fight here. I was just trying to have a conversation. I'm sorry if I came across that way--it's simply communication getting in the way, there's no ill intent.

    All I was getting at here, is that INTJs initially appear rigid, and get more flexible the more you get to know them. And INTPs initially appear flexible, and get more rigid the more you get to know them. And I DISTINCTLY said rigid was not a pejorative term, only a functional term. I me my INTP friends.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #54
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    All I was getting at here, is that INTJs initially appear rigid, and get more flexible the more you get to know them. And INTPs initially appear flexible, and get more rigid the more you get to know them. And I DISTINCTLY said rigid was not a pejorative term, only a functional term. I me my INTP friends.
    Okok, I am sorry. INTJ are not rigid. They are unique. Pick you for an example. Your thoughts as presented here are intresting and good but they are different from common thoughts. To fully understand you, I really have to get to know you and I have to improve on my english .

    It is just my fault that I do not have the patience to get someone to know that is radically in the need of being known before he is nice to you. The same goes with the opposite, I dislike people, who are nice to you from the start, without any sense of reason and put the knife in your back in the end.

    I like balance.

    My INFJ girlfriend is pretty similar to you INTJ's. She has her own world. I do not know how to cope with this. Should I let her live in her own world and eventually leave her unhappy. Or should I show her, what makes the world tick. How she can become president. What eventually would make her unhappy too, because that is not what she wants.

    INTJ, INFJ's whatever. they are the same shit as ENTP and ENFP's.

    I have to pick my friends more carefully ...
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #55
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Funny, you're describing me in the bold parts. Part of it is just not being aware of how much I like them (I deny it like Big Foot because it doesn't make sense. "Of course I must be overreacting because there's no reason to feel this strongly," etc.). Then there's that ubiquitous fear of vulnerability and rejection which drifts in and out of consciousness making me want to wrap my heart in steel whilst the irrationality of the existence of that affection gives me incentive to do so. [Excuse the run-on sentences. I like to see how long I can go.]

    It doesn't sound like either type would get very far with that description... *sigh*
    I think they oscillate so it creates a "challenge" for both to keep chasing each other. I doubt both pull back at the same time.

  6. #56
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maabus1999 View Post
    I think they oscillate so it creates a "challenge" for both to keep chasing each other. I doubt both pull back at the same time.
    Aw man, what a waste of time.

    So... what would you say is the main cause of pull-back for the inexperienced vs. experienced INTJ?

    I know fear of rejection is one. Is confusion about your feelings a major factor?

  7. #57
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Aw man, what a waste of time.

    So... what would you say is the main cause of pull-back for the inexperienced vs. experienced INTJ?

    I know fear of rejection is one. Is confusion about your feelings a major factor?
    I think maybe more the confusion that comes with having intense feelings all of a sudden than confusion about the nature of said feelings.

  8. #58
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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    INTJs live in a world where things make sense.

    Feelings don't always make sense, so it's frustrating to realize that you yourself don't make sense. The things that drive you, don't make sense.
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  9. #59
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    ^ I disagree, feelings/emotions do, in fact, make sense. Ironically, it's more often than not that people's *thoughts* do not make sense.

    One cannot construct an irrational emotion, whereas one most definitely can construct a multitude of irrational beliefs.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #60
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Aw man, what a waste of time.

    So... what would you say is the main cause of pull-back for the inexperienced vs. experienced INTJ?

    I know fear of rejection is one. Is confusion about your feelings a major factor?
    Well I mean in both types, but in an INTJ's case.

    Inexperienced means just that, doesn't know what to do.

    Experienced is maybe more calm about it and may counter it faster if he thinks its damaging. However, I find some ENFP's get moody at times over this, while some are happy you come back to liking them. Unique differences?

    And an ENFP saying a waste of time eh? Hehe, need to explore more possibilities? INTJ won't like that if he is just an exploration and cares about you...

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