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  1. #1
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Default NT's and open mindedness......

    Hi all

    I spend a fair amount of my life among other rationalists, my boss is one, and various other people around my work who are very influencial, along with a few suppliers....

    I know science is generally a good thing, but these dudes seem to be rather em, er, closed minded to the more "out of there" topics....

    I have read up a fair bit on astrology, can chart, predict etc. My boss and various others think it's all hokey. You should hear him when I try and get him to even consider the topic of fairies or elfs or anything (LOL), he just wont even go there.... LOL

    Surely being rational means reading up enough to make an informed decision, rather than simply writing stuff off based on no knoweldge what so ever...

    Ok My line on fairys is generally around well if you can't prove they don't exsist surely one should consider it. Ok that whole subject area is a little tounge in cheek but there are so many other main stream subject he is just closed off to. I did mange to get him to an accupuncturist at one point.

    Intersting that JK rowling, when she wrote Hermoine Granger and Looney Lovegood, she was drawing parallels to Hermoineys text book learning v's Luna's more creeative thinking, which in book 7 was proven to be more accurate than the closed mindedness of Hermonie..... OK I may be over thinking this a little.

    Interested to ehar you NT's thought and those who watch em....

    Lis

  2. #2
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    I think in general an NT's perceived open mindedness has more to do with whether their dominant intuition is external or internal.

    I know from personal experience my INTJ dad is immediately and extremely dismissive of anything that can not be measured, his favorite term is "deliverables". It seems as though the only subjects he will elaborate on are those with a strong systematical scientific rooting, if not he will be quick to mention the lack of actual research to support the claim.

    I think NT's who are more interested in theory for it's own sake would be more willing to discuss the more "out there" topics. Judging from my dad that would most certainly not be an INTJ. Personally I will be very skeptical when it comes to far out topics but I usually am very willing to listen if there is some semblance of rationality in your case. ENTP's with there dominant Ne are especially good at talking about far out subjects with some "rationality" I frequently have silly wild discussions with one of my best friends who is one.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  3. #3
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    I think in general an NT's perceived open mindedness has more to do with whether their dominant intuition is external or internal.

    I know from personal experience my INTJ dad is immediately and extremely dismissive of anything that can not be measured, his favorite term is "deliverables". It seems as though the only subjects he will elaborate on are those with a strong systematical scientific rooting, if not he will be quick to mention the lack of actual research to support the claim.

    I think NT's who are more interested in theory for it's own sake would be more willing to discuss the more "out there" topics. Judging from my dad that would most certainly not be an INTJ. Personally I will be very skeptical when it comes to far out topics but I usually am very willing to listen if there is some semblance of rationality in your case. ENTP's with there dominant Ne are especially good at talking about far out subjects with some "rationality" I frequently have silly wild discussions with one of my best friends who is one.

    Ah now there is no such thing as a silly subject....

    Actually my boss does go on a fair bit about scientific evidnece and measurability. But 100 years ago hormones didn't exist becuase we couldn't see them. Surely scince is not developed enough to measure everything.

    Can you measure "Hope"?

    The story of Pandoras box, has all the desease and pestulance being released from the box and the last thing to leave was hope. THe Greeks then spent the next 300 years discussing if Hope was malific or benific.....both are true I beleive......

    L

  4. #4
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    The thing about fairies is that the same argument can be presented about them as anything -- "You can't disprove them, so therefore you shouldn't consider them non-existant". I tend to hate those arguments, as the list of things that includes (but is not limited to) is God, the Abominable Snowman, the celestial teapot, leprachauns, aliens, Celine Dion's singing ability and tarot card predictions. I'm a little more open to alternative medicine practices, because while they don't work for me, they apparently seem to help some people. I wouldn't consider them a primary source of aid if you get your arm chopped off though.

    In terms of astrology, my rule is that unless a prediction based on it can be proven right three times in a row, I refuse to see it as more than mere coincidence. Even if it did work, I probably wouldn't give it more than five second's notice because really, if a person has to live their life based on predictions made in a newspaper (or wherever said source is), it means that they've given up control of their actions. People who believe can sometimes become dependent on those means of prediction, and it ends up ruling their lives. I wouldn't be surprised if some people facilitated their own predictions. It's like that Matrix quote (which I am probably paraphrasing) -- "The question is, would you have broken the vase had I not mentionned it?"
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

  5. #5
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    yea theres no doubt in my mind you have to be willing to suspend the "measurable" aspect of science for a bit to make worthwhile breakthroughs, at least in thought.

    One of the reason's my dad decided to pursue a career as an engineer instead of a scientist or professor or what have you, was because of his dislike of purely abstract concepts. In his mind knowledge is only good to the extent that it can be applied, if theres no tangible progress or evidence then for him it is pointless.

    I haven't read much about him but Leonardo Da Vinci seems to me an interesting character. There's something to be said for having a creative artistic mind, with the capability of clinical scientifically rational thought.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #6
    señor member colmena's Avatar
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    I like to think like this. Like where does our imagination come from? Do you believe in Holism or Reductionism or something else?

    I like how it sparks off into time.
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  7. #7
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerithria View Post
    Th
    In terms of astrology, my rule is that unless a prediction based on it can be proven right three times in a row, I refuse to see it as more than mere coincidence. Even if it did work, I probably wouldn't give it more than five second's notice because really, if a person has to live their life based on predictions made in a newspaper (or wherever said source is), it means that they've given up control of their actions. People who believe can sometimes become dependent on those means of prediction, and it ends up ruling their lives. I wouldn't be surprised if some people facilitated their own predictions. It's like that Matrix quote (which I am probably paraphrasing) -- "The question is, would you have broken the vase had I not mentionned it?"
    Now all those unprovable thigns are surely worth considering even for a moment......????

    Actually astrology is merely the interpretation of astronomy data, the interpretational range has c.3000 years of history. What you get in papers is pretty hugie, but it is usually based on the same mthematical measurment of the starts. It's not actually reelevant to most of the readers. Real astroogy is based on individual charts, which you should be able to get a similar reading from 3 seperate people, albeit with a range of margin of variance. The subject also had the ability to add in unconventional behaviour - basically it works on the same principal as applied statistics, - a persons forcast is based on the theory that they will behave true to type, in exactly the same way as sampling theory is used in predictive statistics. If 60% of the same say yet then the majority of the population will go for it.

    As for people being overly dependant on others to make their deicsions I totally agree, but that could be almost anything from an over dominant partner, to reading sand, to weather a black cat crosses their path.....

    The reality is the obsession fo measurment actually clouds their ability to be open minded - In my humble opinion.... liberate your grey matter.... think differently

    Lis

  8. #8
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    yea theres no doubt in my mind you have to be willing to suspend the "measurable" aspect of science for a bit to make worthwhile breakthroughs, at least in thought.

    One of the reason's my dad decided to pursue a career as an engineer instead of a scientist or professor or what have you, was because of his dislike of purely abstract concepts. In his mind knowledge is only good to the extent that it can be applied, if theres no tangible progress or evidence then for him it is pointless.

    I haven't read much about him but Leonardo Da Vinci seems to me an interesting character. There's something to be said for having a creative artistic mind, with the capability of clinical scientifically rational thought.

    Measurment is about containment, free thinkign is about liberation, these thigns are pretty diametrically opposed. Yes if you want to formulate then it is good to standardise, but even great cooking requires a certain swish and flick.....

    Actually do you think the whole measurment is just the J types trying to validate their controlling ways????? - WICKED Grinnnn..

    I can use abstract concerps but I also like em to be practcall and appliable....

    Leanardo - yes facinating soul I would think....although I'd also think he would be pretty darn scary....

    L

  9. #9
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colmena View Post
    I like to think like this. Like where does our imagination come from? Do you believe in Karen Mortonor something else?

    I like how it sparks off into time.
    Gosh nothign for ages then I do three posts at once...

    Actually I think imagination is something of very early childhood. My mum used to get us to hunt lions and tigers in the garden...great for building imagination, bravery and a sence of adventure, also the ability to lie your head off about the scary things you had seen.

    I have no diea what Karen Morton are. .....'splain

    I liek sparks tooooooo



    Ok off to bed

    Nite....

  10. #10
    señor member colmena's Avatar
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    How many translation sites are you going through?

    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

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