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[INTJ] INTJ anger

BadOctopus

Suave y Fuerte
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
3,232
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I guess I must be a little different than many other INTJs, in that I rarely experience outbursts of anger. It's not that I don't get angry; in fact, I can get very angry indeed. But it almost never shows. Even when I am angry, I strive to conduct myself with dignity whenever possible. I certainly never scream or throw things or spew abusive speech at people. To me, that sort of behavior displays immaturity. Not to mention an egregious lack of self-control.

But this doesn't seem to be the case with other INTJs. Ironically, even though they claim that emotions are illogical and beneath them, many of them give in to outbursts of anger on a regular basis. To me, such Vesuvius-like eruptions of snarky, hateful rage seem counterintuitive and contradictory in a supposedly "rational" type. Simply put, I don't get it.

So I suppose I'm putting the question to the INTJs here. How do you express your anger? What do you think is behind the manifestations of anger which I have observed in many INTJs? Do you identify with it? Or not?
 

Bknight

Lost in the Multiverse
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
201
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I don't ever really explode by any definition of the word. It's always seemed irrational and counterproductive to me. When I'm irritated, it's kind of whatevs. I don't say much of anything, and I calm down pretty quick.

When I'm LEGIT pissed off, I either contain it or let it loose in a way that I like to call cold fury. Even then, though, I make a point not to emotionally hurt somebody that wasn't/isn't involved, and I'm always careful that there isn't any lasting damage. I only go so far as to make clear that they crossed a line.

Not sure if that makes me sound like an asshole... I should probably summarize. Essentially, I make a point to never hurt anyone emotionally or physically when I get angry. I also make sure that I remain rational despite my emotions. Considering how I'm a teen, it's something I had to learn quite quickly. You know kids my age. ;)
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Two-Headed Boy
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,572
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'd argue that there's not necessarily anything intrinsically wrong with getting angry. I think it's unrealistic to expect people to not get angry. Plus, even when someone thinks that they are being calm, I can often sense the anger. It reveals itself in a certain curt chilliness.

Now, practicality demands I attempt to keep my anger under control, and I think it's better to think with a cool head. But this doesn't make anger bad or something to be ashamed of. Anger can even be good. It can let us know if an injustice is committed, for instance. It can let us know if someone or something you care about is threatened. It indicates when values need to be upheld or higher principles are at stake.
 

Rambling

New member
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
401
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I learnt back when I was a kid, that getting angry and expressing it tended to get the result I wanted...which wasn't a great thing to learn. Years and years later I realised from watching other angry people express their anger that they made themselves lonely because others wouldn't get close to them...

Which is pretty much the classic path of the Enneagram 8 anger outwardly expressed, where integration is found by considering the person who is in the firing line...becoming an E2 in that situation.

As for how I expressed anger, sometimes I expressed it openly but as I grew up I was more likely to withdraw, feel wounded, hide it as being a bad thing and thus allow it to subconsciously affect my actions, but realising how lonely it could make me really altered my approach, and I have to thank the Enneagram for helping me.

Nowadays I try to express anger in small ways so it doesn't build up...the classic 'kick the cat' approach, if you happen to have a cat. I'm actually more likely to vent openly, rant, or say that I'm tired or hungry, precisely so that other people I care about know how I'm doing.
Secondly it does tell me about where my passions, needs and wants are, so it can be directional.
Thirdly I am still working on anger towards situations from the past.

In text form I probably sound more like an angry person than I used to, because of ranting and venting, but in real life I am much less up tight or tense or explosive or withdrawn than I used to be twenty or thirty years ago.
 

Riva

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
2,371
Enneagram
7w8
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sp/sx
Maybe you have e1 in your tritype?

Yes I've seen INTJs get mad. However, from what I have noticed condescension, snarkyness are usually their outburst methods.

Ironically, even though they claim that emotions are illogical and beneath them,

These are usually the young/immature inexperienced ones no?
 

Opal

New member
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
1,391
MBTI Type
ENTP
Assuming the offense is especially egregious, I become socially cold and redirect my fury to a more private outlet. When I feel clean, I engage again with good intentions.

I learned fairly early to distance my anger from others. Swallowing outrage is more productive than retaliatory volleys.
 

grey_beard

The Typing Tabby
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
1,478
MBTI Type
INTJ
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5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I guess I must be a little different than many other INTJs, in that I rarely experience outbursts of anger. It's not that I don't get angry; in fact, I can get very angry indeed. But it almost never shows. Even when I am angry, I strive to conduct myself with dignity whenever possible. I certainly never scream or throw things or spew abusive speech at people. To me, that sort of behavior displays immaturity. Not to mention an egregious lack of self-control.

But this doesn't seem to be the case with other INTJs. Ironically, even though they claim that emotions are illogical and beneath them, many of them give in to outbursts of anger on a regular basis. To me, such Vesuvius-like eruptions of snarky, hateful rage seem counterintuitive and contradictory in a supposedly "rational" type. Simply put, I don't get it.

So I suppose I'm putting the question to the INTJs here. How do you express your anger? What do you think is behind the manifestations of anger which I have observed in many INTJs? Do you identify with it? Or not?

My guess would be bottling them up.
But there is something to be said for the INTJ death stare, when there *is* actual anger behind it. I've seen crowds part to make way...:dry:
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
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4w5
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sp/sx
as [MENTION=20856]grey_beard[/MENTION] said, bottling up, is what causes Se inferior to erupt like a volcano. Fuelled by a child like value system.

It would be a mistake thinking that is a sign of immaturity. Not dealing with it, that would be, that side of you that you suppress does not lead to more maturity, because when that day arrives you will not know what to do with yourself.

I can point fingers, but I can also point at myself, when I was in my 20s, I acted cool and calm and collected and never dealt with that side. I always shied away when it came to anger. That wasn't helping me at all, because now that I am much older, I have no choice but to deal with it. And I am not equipped for it.

Inferior: Extroverted Sensation (Se)

It's worth noting that introverted perception takes great pains to limit its perceptual intake to certain specific kinds of information with which it is comfortable and familiar, because understanding this concept helps us to see why extroverted perception (which encourages taking in the greatest possible quantity of different varieties of new information) generates such a difficult psychological barrier for the IxxJ types.

In the INTJ's case, inferior Se is forced out primarily during highly stressful moments where taking in massive quantities of new external information and adapting and responding to it in real time becomes necessary. This is where IJs flounder the most: they are most at home when Pi is allowed to select the type of information it wishes to perceive and then focus intently on absorbing it into the internal template for that type of experiential input, which Je will then consult in its decision as to which externally accepted methodology will prove most effective. When all sorts of different kinds of information are thrown in her face at once, however, the INTJ must resort to inferior Se in order to catch them all and have any hope of responding before the opportunity is gone. She must act purely on immediate impulse with no time for reflection or consideration; she is forced to navigate terrain that she not only lacks a map for, but that she doesn't even have any related experiential templates to turn to for guidance. She must improvise.

When this happens to INTJs, the enormous flood of undifferentiated information accompanied by the feeling of total loss of control generated by the inability to reflect or consider the options before responding is extraordinarily threatening. Left with no other option, inferior Se leads the INTJ to resort to his most base animal instincts: fight or flight. Even the normally composed, calm, and reserved INTJ may be prone to occasional bouts of total indiscretion, resulting in extreme indulgence in sensual pleasures or outright rage and even physical violence (or at least overt threats thereof.)

I have also seen, on more than one occasion, an INTJ purchase expensive status symbols (fancy cars, big houses, etc.) for the simple purpose of showing off how much his hard work and perseverance has paid off in an immediately noticeable, material sense. On some level, INTJs are aware that ostentatious possessions are the only language some people will understand--and while they tend to consider this a rather primitive value system, they're glad to oblige by occasionally dropping significant money on really nice possessions. This way, they can simultaneously indulge their unconscious Se desires while telling themselves they're only doing it as a private little in-joke with themselves, where Ni can laugh at how heavily such a trivially shallow display of status and power can impact the perceptions of the silly little everyday people around them.

As Ni dominants, INTJs are naturally averse to a focus on literal surface meaning, because it threatens Ni's insistence on defining one's identity by the ability to see past the obvious and intuit the less obvious interpretation, the hidden meaning beneath the surface. If they ever learn to command Se in a positive way (which is somewhat rare), INTJs will learn to discern situations in which there is no underlying meaning, or at least in which looking for it is neither useful nor productive. For an Ni dominant, shutting off this desire to see "between the lines" and focus purely on the immediate sensory content in from of him is just as threatening as turning off vision, hearing, touch, taste, and smell would be for an Se dominant. He feels lost, confused, and woefully subject to the same lowest-common-denominator surface deception that his entire self-image prides itself on its natural ability to discern and avoid.

Nonetheless, some INTJs do eventually learn to command Se in a useful way. It confers some sense of what's popular and immediately effective on a literal sensory level, which often partners with Te's desire to be judged as competent and effective in leading INTJs to take serious pride in their physical appearances, and to be certain that their clothing, speech, and aesthetic tastes are up to date and in style (and thus do not preclude useful business opportunities they might otherwise have missed.) It provides them with an appreciation for things as they are instead of constantly looking for ways to reinterpret them as something else, and for the simple pleasures in life--good food, art and entertainment, physical intimacy--in a way that may, in time, strike them as more spiritually pure than the constant meta-analysis they're accustomed to. In a very well-balanced INTJ, Se should bolster Fi's sense of aesthetic appeal and artistic value ("How does this piece of art hide a disguised meaning that I can analyze?" will give way to, "How does this piece of art make me immediately feel?"), while allowing occasional controlled indulgence in pure, unadulterated fun, for no reason but its own merits.

And that's something, I think, that would make a lot of INTJs feel a lot better if they could get out of their systems in a healthy and non-destructive manner. The sooner we get that out of the way, the sooner we can get back to work.

source: INTJ - Typology Wiki

I bought this vehicle, which is unlike me. I used to drive an old 1989 corolla Toyota, after my divorce, I was so pissed off.

 

Metamorphosis

New member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
3,474
MBTI Type
INTJ
I think that quote from BlueWing's profile is pretty spot on ^.

In general, I almost never get angry. When I was a lot younger one day it just clicked for me that most of the things that I was getting angry about just really weren't important and worth all of that effort. Now if I feel myself getting angry (which is rare) I just ask myself if it's even worth being angry about. Normally it isn't.

Despite all of that, if I do find myself getting angry, I'll generally try to detach and get the people around me to let the issue go until I can cool down because I know that I'll be able to analyze it more retrospectively in a more fair way. If they don't, or I don't, or I think it provides strategic value then I'll start to let it show. Sometimes for someone who is so outwardly calm all of the time, letting some anger show is enough to get the point across. You have to be willing to have the follow through, though.
 

Great Skua

New member
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Feb 6, 2015
Messages
10
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
I get mildly irritated quite easily, but I usually contain it or just distance myself from the situation if I can't do anything to improve it. Otherwise I get curt and snarky.

I very rarely get severely angry, but when I do it's a very cold and subdued anger... most people don't even really recognize it as such unless they're close to me, because I'm generally a reserved person anyway and not prone to outbursts. Generally I'll speak even less and pick my words very meticulously. Occasionally I'll rant if I really need to get something out, but I'm only comfortable doing that to a couple of people and it's generally only when I'm very upset about something which is rare.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
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Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,913
MBTI Type
INTJ
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8w9
Yes I've seen INTJs get mad. However, from what I have noticed condescension, snarkyness are usually their outburst methods.

This. Mostly because, letting the 8 out isn't usually an option.
 
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