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[NT] Why are we (INTJ/INTP) so rare?

Unique

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i agree with this one. if you look at the 4 temperaments, the largest group are the SJ's, then SP's followed by the NF's and finally the NT's. in short you have the defender of the norms, the norm followers and then the creative people. it looks like evolution to me. you wouldn't expect the creative bunch to be the majority. we have a small amount of people who strive to be creative and a lot of other people to carry things out. humanity would probably be doomed if we only had N's. S's would at least survive. they may not do anything new, but they would do alright. i like the status quo as it is now.

I always get confused with all the SJ defenders, their argument always is "for good reason, it would all fall apart if not for the SJs"

All I can say to this is what the hell are you smoking if you think this world isn't ALREADY falling apart. You think this piece of shit of a war invested narrow minded uneducated uncreative violent egotistical world is actually in anyway GOOD?

and they call me mad....

*does the INTP scoff and walks off*
 

Loxias

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I know the study you are talking about and you are mistaken, that was ISTJs

No, ISTJ were the number one with an even higher percentage. While INTJs were at 10% in 3rd or 4rth place iirc.
 

Kasper

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No, ISTJ were the number one with an even higher percentage. While INTJs were at 10% in 3rd or 4rth place iirc.

Yup, I assume ya'll are talking about the Australian Association for Psychological Type Inc report: link

Which showed the following results for Australia:

ozmbti.jpg


ozmbti2.jpg


Seems we live in a male TJ and female F dominated country. I find it interesting that the top 8 male types are all Ts.

ETA: That was the 2001 report, the 2002 report was slightly different link, but not by much.
 

ergophobe

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The distribution is interesting. ISJs have the highest percentage across both types. Also, the women seem to have more spread versus the males with 21% concentrated in the ISTJs. Cool.
 

Kalach

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^ "The Form G profiles of 6507 females and 7569 males were analysed to form the table. These data were supplied to the Australian Data Archive from a variety of sources, and it is not claimed that they are representative of the Australian population. However, the data came from both rural and urban areas and, although managerial and professional groups are particularly well represented, all levels and occupational classifications are included. "

Add to this an American report suggesting about 60% of managers everywhere (America) are TJ and those Australian distributions are likely to be wa-a-a-y off.

Type Distribution of participants in the Center for Creative Leadership's Leadership development Program

Top 4 percentages go to TJ:

ISTJ 18.2%
INTJ 10.5%
ESTJ 16.0%
ENTJ 13.1%

N=26,477


"The Relationship Between the MBTI and Measures of Personality and Performance in Management Groups", by JW. Fleenor, 1997, in Developing Leaders, p.119.
 

Kasper

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Add to this an American report suggesting about 60% of managers everywhere (America) are TJ and those Australian distributions are likely to be wa-a-a-y off.

It does skew things but without figures showing what areas the respondents worked in it's impossible to know how off the figures in terms of representing the population, I linked it in because it was mentioned not because it is wholly representative, although they did attempt to add more diversity in the 2003 update:

Male: n = 9255
Female: n = 8033

ozmbti3.jpg
 

BlackCat

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Introverts make up 25% of the world, and intuitives make up ~30% of the world apparently. So that makes the IN types the rarest.
 

Kasper

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Introverts make up 25% of the world

^ I don't believe that. I believe the I/E split is closer to 50/50 with a slight preference for E.
 

BlackCat

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^ I don't believe that. I believe the I/E split is closer to 50/50 with a slight preference for E.

Yeah I'm inclined to agree. I was just going by statistics. I think that it's more 40/60 in the extrovert's favor.
 

Kalach

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It does skew things but without figures showing what areas the respondents worked in it's impossible to know how off the figures in terms of representing the population, I linked it in because it was mentioned not because it is wholly representative, although they did attempt to add more diversity in the 2003 update:

Noted. But including a significant number of managers from any profession has to make one wary of the TJ data. There's even a really small study somewhere (N=380) suggesting that even in Human Resources management, the top four types are still TJ.

For the August 2002 data on the male side the top four preferences even sorta match that American management study.


And I mean seriously, Australia has more NTJs than ESPs? Ian Ball musta needed publication credits or something.
 

Kasper

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And I mean seriously, Australia has more NTJs than ESPs?

Overall I would be surprised if that were the case, I believe SPs in general are underrepresented/mistyped in the data however I wouldn't be surprised if the American figures that show much disproportion like the I25/E75 split BlackCat mentioned weren't representative either.

The place I socialise the most is in corporate society so my exposure to the average person is skewed like the results. I wish they had information showing more data behind the results.
 

Loxias

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It does skew things but without figures showing what areas the respondents worked in it's impossible to know how off the figures in terms of representing the population, I linked it in because it was mentioned not because it is wholly representative, although they did attempt to add more diversity in the 2003 update:

Male: n = 9255
Female: n = 8033

ozmbti3.jpg

I have to say, I found those figures quite odd.
I have no problem believing that ISTJs and ESTJs top the charts, they are well represented everywhere and more or less form the backbone of every societies.
It's more the rarity of SPs that really surprises me. Being a fine arts student, I am more or less surrounded by SPs (and NFs to a lesser extent), that is, art students and the people that hang out with them. Which gave me the impression that Melbourne is suffocatingly dominated with SPs (especially where you find 20-30yo white middle class alternatives).
And even when I end up in more "bogan" areas, the people still seem to be quite often SPs, although in a different way.

Either the sampling is poor. Either NTs are like dark matter, we can infer it's there in quantity, but we can't see it.
 

ColonelGadaafi

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Those results seem like genuine boogus to me. Statistically there is no way NTJ's and N's in general top the Sensor population. People must have signed off the wrong type, in order meet the requirement bar set by employers. After all, if we are working in certain industries, we want to be tagged with the type associated with "natural" ability.
 

highlander

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Yup, I assume ya'll are talking about the Australian Association for Psychological Type Inc report: link

Which showed the following results for Australia:

ozmbti.jpg


ozmbti2.jpg


Seems we live in a male TJ and female F dominated country. I find it interesting that the top 8 male types are all Ts.

ETA: That was the 2001 report, the 2002 report was slightly different link, but not by much.

I'm horribly skeptical of these statistics. I've been type watching for years and just don't see that many INTJs. Either that, or Australia is very different in composition of type than the US. The link below provides some alternative numbers.

MBTI Proximity Chart at MROB
 

Salomé

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A possible explanation?

The most likely way for evolution to produce a friendly or tame animal is to stop brain development prematurely. The effect is a smaller brain and especially a smaller “area 13”, a late-developing part of the limbic system that seems to have the job of disinhibiting adult emotional reactions such as fear and aggression. Intriguingly, such a taming process seems to have happened naturally in bonobos since their separation from the chimpanzee more than 2 million years ago. For its size the bonobo not only has a small head but also is less aggressive and retains several juvenile features into adulthood. Bonobos have unusually small area 13s.

So do human beings. Surprisingly, the fossil record suggests that there has been a rather steep decline in the size of the human brain during the past 13,000 years, partly but not wholly reflecting a shrinking body that seems to have accompanied the arrival of dense and “civilised” human settlements. This followed several million years of more of less steady increases in brain size. In the Mesolithic (around 50,000 years ago) the human brain averaged 1,468cc (in females) and 1,567cc (in males). Today the numbers have fallen to 1210cc and 1248cc, and even allowing for some reduction in body weight, this seems to be a steep decline. If so, how? Richard Wrangham believes thatonce human beings become sedentary, living in permanent settlements, they could no longer tolerate antisocial behaviour and they began to banish, imprison, or execute especially difficult individuals. In the past in highland New Guinea, more than one in ten of all adult deaths were by the execution of “witches” (mostly men). This might have meant killing the more aggressive and impulsive – and hence more developmentally mature and bigger-brained - people.
(excerpt from The Agile Gene)
 

simulatedworld

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The Australian statistics seem to reflect a really bad testing mechanism. INTJ 3rd most common among men? Not a chance.

btw, INTP is more common than all four NJ types. Ni is the rarest dom/aux function in general.
 

ragashree

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A possible explanation?

LOL :rofl1: I think the Evil One might need to think about hiring new counsel at this rate!

This might have meant killing the more aggressive and impulsive – and hence more developmentally mature and bigger-brained - people.

Ah, who cares if it makes NO SENSE. It's science, right? ;) If it worked for Freud...
 

Redbone

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Rare = valuable?
 

goodgrief

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Where's me Aussie INTJs at? :hi:

Hello.

If it really IS genetic (which I much doubt), then like a great INTJ once said:
"I propose a breeding program similar to the ones used byy the Vulcans, in which everyone is paired up to mate once every 7 years. For many of you, that will mean having sex much less often. For me, much, much more!"
 
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