User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 25

  1. #11
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    2,967

    Default

    I appreciate the word "play" being used, BlackOp, and I agree with your method. Very En of you.

    Sometimes people who have little to offer or are having difficulties dealing with troubling feelings (And we all know who those guys are. Heh.) exercise their wits for a variety of reasons other than what they appear at a surface reading.

    As INFPs, Chat, we run into trouble trying to figure out people's sincerity and we have that danged compulsion to keep explaining ourselves ad infinitum.

    Here's what works for me:

    I try not to speak until I have confidence in my answer. Then, if challenged, I have three choices. I can agree, disagree or put it on the back burner for future reference. Arguing or explaining, from my perspective, only goads on further irritating behavior. Because it isn't a conversation; it's a game. One that you are not supposed to win.

    A perusal of posters' habits over a period of time separates the conversationalists from the trolls.

    There is a compulsion in one's youth, as we try to figure out what we really are and what we believe in, to bounce it off of others. A normal process.

    We have some information and, darn it, we want to let others know that we are becoming more sure of ourselves.

    Where we back ourselves into corners is our stubborn-minded insistence (and assumption) that we are correct. And taking even another step closer to the social abyss we attempt to convince others of such. In an attempt to win respect and admiration we end up alienating the very possibility with tantrums, name-calling, arrogance, so forth. Our needs are being thwarted, for goodness sake.


    What does it take on both sides' part? Some insight is good. Some patience and acceptance of others' need for respect and admiration help. A good group grope now and then?

    All a part of the maturing process, and yes, it's an irritating conversation stopper.

    Now. Don't anyone argue with me about that because I secretly know I'm right and you're wrong!

    PS. It also doesn't hurt to remember that we really don't know many of our conversationalists and there's a good chance that some of us may be struggling with personalty/thought disorders which mar their ability to have friendly encounters with others. "More to be pitied than censured." I believe the phrase is.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #12
    Senior Member BlackOp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    intj
    Posts
    211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I appreciate the word "play" being used, BlackOp, and I agree with your method. Very En of you.
    I was referring to instinct rather than chessmanship..."play" just happens to be part of the lyrics. Personally, small talk makes me quite uncomfortable......like I'm being forced to lie. There is a "used car salesman" quality to the whole social process. Some require this affirmation ritual.....provides acknowledgment and habitual comfort to those who need it. I actually envy people who can do it with sincerity...after 45 seconds my mind if off to something else. It doesnt mean I dont care, I can provide real comfort when the situation is deserving.
    "A species of perfection and fantasy"......

  3. #13
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    6,028

    Default

    I agree with booya. If someone presents an idea, I interact with the idea and try to make it the best version of what it is. Or if it's a non-workable or fallacy-laden concept, I try to point out the holes, because I'd want someone to do that for me. I always have a fear that there's a side I haven't thought about yet. I don't see it as person = idea. If you're married to your argument and don't want anyone poking at it or seeing if it holds water, you shouldn't present it to NTs. I've had a couple run-ins on this board with folks who felt attacked by me, when I felt like I was merely challenging an idea they'd presented as fact. I had absolutely no personal ill-will towards either of them. The cases I'm thinking of were NFs, but I wouldn't say it's an across-the-board NF thing by any means.

    NTs don't "go after" a certain type's ideas over another. But sometimes people don't realize how personally attached to their own ideas they are (or perhaps there's some insecurity at work), and they view the NT scrutiny as a personal attack. NTs just don't think that way, usually. Unless the person in question is an arrogant a-hole and an NT wants to deflate him.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default

    I give them an exam once every two weeks called "What Edahn Thinks."

  5. #15
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,755

    Default

    I appreciate anyone's ideas, the more off the wall the better. I ask questions to learn about thee secrets of their mind and the way they think, whether than trying to shoot their ideas down. Some of the most insane ideas work in history even though they may seem impossible and illogical at first. (like launching rocket to the moon or the steam ship).

  6. #16
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    274

    Default

    I think talking about the various merits of an idea, the good points and bad, is an INTJ's/INTP's idea of an enjoyable conversation.

    I know I love looking at things in depth and analyzing things, breaking apart arguements, looking at things from all sides, etc. This includes looking at the good and bad points, the strenghts and weaknesses.

    I think that when presented with an argument or opinion that seems one sided the is a natural tendancy to want to dig deeper and find the opposing side.

    To be honest when I do an on-line post I welcome people with differing opinions. Not people who will say things like "that's really stupid" or "what the **** were you thinking when your wrote this" but people who have different ideas and present them respectfully.

    The whole dialog, or lack of dialog, where one person says something and everyone says things like "I agree" and "good post" gets boring because there is no discussion.

    I think it can sometimes make a difference in how you present your ideas. If you present an idea tenatively, "I am thinking about buying X, I am thinking of doing X" NTs tend to interpret that as "I am unsure, help me decide if I am making the right choice." F types probably interpet this as a person wanting reassurance they are making the right choice. If you come out with more self confidence and self assurance, "I am doing this." "I am buying this." then there is less chance it will be a topic of discusion.

  7. #17
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chatoyer View Post
    (I'm trying to figure out if this is my NF-hypersensitive perception or not......)

    Is it common for you guys to test everyone's ideas constantly? Do you do it more with non-NTs or do NTs get more of a pass? Is it a compliment? Is it an insult? Is it neutral? Do you ever get to a point with a person that you accept their ideas & insights without so much battle, scrutiny, skepticism?

    I just feel like I'm constantly proving myself with some of the NTs in my life, am I oversensitive? Part of me is defensive about it, where I expect less of a battle...based on my history with the particular person, does my history of giving good insight, or presenting an interesting idea, or being more perceptive, not get factored into the present? Is it a jumbled mess, where I'm unaware of ideas I've had that have been rejected by the NT, so I'm put in this strange camp that some percentage of my ideas that are good determine my standing with these individual NT persons?

    NTs critically analyze ideas that they take an interest in to the end of arriving at a better understanding.

    It is a compliment because it shows that they are interested in your thoughts. Most people are deemed not worthy of their attention.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #18
    Senior Member chatoyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    eNfP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/sp
    Posts
    122

    Default

    ...where it sounds like you are expressing discontent that your past intelligence is not getting factored into your current relationship with this person and that you feel on some level this is unfair...
    I think this is the frustration, and I'm not sure it's warranted. I love the way NTs think, I try to learn, and bounce off ideas with them as much as possible. It's when I get a compliment from an NT friend that seems like "wow, that was great thinking", as if it were a surprise, when I thought I had already earned their respect in my way of thinking, even if it's different from them at points.

    I don't know if I'm reading too much into this, as NTs tend to be sparing in compliments, & I'm not saying that I need all this coddling and reassurance when I'm discussing something.........it's that I compare it with closer NTs in my life, like my husband & other closer friends, who will remind me that I don't need to do all those disclaimers, or I don't need to be defensive, I can short-cut a discussion with them, because they respect me (and how I think and make decisions about an issue) and they already have a backstory on how I got to a certain conclusion. There's more short-cutting, and less of this competitive sort of thing where I'm proving myself.

  9. #19
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    8,559

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    NTs critically analyze ideas that they take an interest in to the end of arriving at a better understanding.

    It is a compliment because it shows that they are interested in your thoughts. Most people are deemed not worthy of their attention.
    Which is why when a friend of me further questioned me on the implications of a story setting I was working on I felt better about it rather than looked at like an idiot. The setting was a Jovian moon like system where several of the moons had relatively Earth-like biospheres. He wanted to get a sense of what the idea could be used for. I think he's an INTJ...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #20
    Senior Member celesul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    190

    Default

    I like playing with the ideas. Generally, if a person has an interesting idea, I want to analyze it and toys with it, and while that may expose a few holes, it is helpful to be able to fix it I think. It's a fun game for me ^.^

    Sadly, people don't always want to play the idea game, even if I'm sacrificing some of my own ideas for playing... It isn't always best for the ego after all, so I suppose I understand. Still, I have only a few people who will play, so they tend to become highly valued friends.
    "'You scoundrel, you have wronged me,' hissed the philosopher. 'May you live forever!'" - Ambrose Bierce

Similar Threads

  1. How do other people see you? TEST
    By Wonkavision in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 04-24-2012, 11:53 AM
  2. [NT] How you got your ideas
    By Maverick in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 04-01-2012, 09:46 AM
  3. [NT] NTs, how do you deal with Reality...
    By rivercrow in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 06-15-2010, 08:45 AM
  4. Can ADD or Asperger's Syndrome influence how you test?
    By Halfjillhalfjack in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 11-09-2009, 02:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO