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  1. #21
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Hey Samuel,

    So yeah. I'm dealing with this issue too, bigtime. I've been studying meditation for a while (and even practicing it, heh) and to be honest, I've had mixed results. I think it would pay in the long run, but I don't even think I'm settled enough to start meditation.

    The trick, I think, is in connecting to your body instead of your mind. You can think of your experience as divided along two poles, headspace and bodyspace. ENTPs spend lots and lots of time in headspace. The remedy is to leave it alone and move into the body, and your breath is a good way to do that. You can use your breath to connect with your feelings about this particular moment. Are you anxious? Agitated? Upset? Restless? Check in over and over and see how things are. In fact, you can designate specific times to do this. Idle time is a great opportunity -- driving, walking, sitting, waiting.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Cality's Avatar
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    How funny! I thought that one of my co-worker, I like a lot (I admire a lot I should say) is ENTP. She is quite different from most other speech path I see who are molsty either ENFJs, ESFJs, ISFJs and a few ENFPs like me. She thinks "global", she sees the globality of the patient and is very creative (N trait associated with P I thought). She is very perceptive on how thier mind works and able to see through them. But She is funny and not that sensitive. She arrives somewhere, makes people laugh. She is very comprehensive (she is a psychologist also beside) but not extremly sensitive.



    BUT She is also very very very specialised in 1 or 2 sub-field our job. She prefers doing or 2 types of rehab (basically the hardest one, any physicians in the area send patients to her in priority in 2 major fields) than doing many different sorts of rehab and doing it badly. She is extremly good in what she does. She can talk to physician on a "egal" level because she knows almost as many stuff than physician, she all learned by her self (even medication). She doesn't care about physician's opinion and can stand up against what they say because she sees their flaws in their field. She doesn't care much about their "physicians title" even though she has many physicians friends and has good relationships to them (In this, I am the same way than her, since i study neuropsycholgy and see all the bullshits phyisicans, even neurologist can tell to patients or to us.. ). She is very good relationnally, which made me think she was E. Since she is very very specialised in 1 or 2 field, I am realising she might not be an ENTP according to your thread. She is very very demanding with her interns. She might just be an INTJ who is acting E and P. This could explain this uncredible admiration I have for her (Ni/Ne), like I never had for anyone. Just because I feel our minds works professionally very compatibly. I learn tons with her. She trusts me, I trust her professionnally! She is also buddhist, unconventionnal, open-minded and looks for easy-going but talented co-workers (she owns the office). She is just so different than most speech path I see who are nice, sweet and well organised and extremly pin-pointing everything, over-emotionnal but routinised in their rehab girls and who are unable to tell patients "stop" when they go to far at times. I am so much not fitting into that professionnal environnement. For example, I get better along with physio-therapists for that reason : mostly men, funny, sportly, who can be straight forward with patients at times and able to say "no!" and easy-going!

    She had very hard lifes times. She is 50 now. She might have been I before E. This could sound appropriate to her own personal story and personal changes.

  3. #23
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Hey Samuel,

    So yeah. I'm dealing with this issue too, bigtime. I've been studying meditation for a while (and even practicing it, heh) and to be honest, I've had mixed results. I think it would pay in the long run, but I don't even think I'm settled enough to start meditation.

    The trick, I think, is in connecting to your body instead of your mind. You can think of your experience as divided along two poles, headspace and bodyspace. ENTPs spend lots and lots of time in headspace. The remedy is to leave it alone and move into the body, and your breath is a good way to do that. You can use your breath to connect with your feelings about this particular moment. Are you anxious? Agitated? Upset? Restless? Check in over and over and see how things are. In fact, you can designate specific times to do this. Idle time is a great opportunity -- driving, walking, sitting, waiting.
    I like that... getting to know the body... this is all covered quite comprehensively in traditional Hindu philosophy... Patanjali recommends four practices to ensure that meditation actually occurs...

    1) Moral restraints - self-discipline in everyday life

    2) Ethical restraints - consideration and fair dealing with others and the world around one

    3) Asanas - physical postures and exercises to loosen and tone up the body...

    4) Praanayama - breathing exercises which ostensibly also increase oxygen intake, open up inner channels... etc...

    _________________________________

    Perhaps finding time away from this, by walking/running in the park or something, I could buttress these techniques with stuff that's absolutely and utterly unplanned, not focused on a goal... just me-time...

    yeah... that's good, Edahn.. I stopped taking time to just 'do nothing' a while ago, and my headspace has become congested... I need to air it...
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  4. #24
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    I like that... getting to know the body... this is all covered quite comprehensively in traditional Hindu philosophy... Patanjali recommends four practices to ensure that meditation actually occurs...

    1) Moral restraints - self-discipline in everyday life

    2) Ethical restraints - consideration and fair dealing with others and the world around one

    3) Asanas - physical postures and exercises to loosen and tone up the body...

    4) Praanayama - breathing exercises which ostensibly also increase oxygen intake, open up inner channels... etc...

    _________________________________

    Perhaps finding time away from this, by walking/running in the park or something, I could buttress these techniques with stuff that's absolutely and utterly unplanned, not focused on a goal... just me-time...

    yeah... that's good, Edahn.. I stopped taking time to just 'do nothing' a while ago, and my headspace has become congested... I need to air it...
    The danger for me, and I can already see that the danger for you too, is intellectualizing the whole thing and turning it into a game... making connections with this philosophy and that philosophy, and why this makes sense, and how this comports with that... I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but you shouldn't do it while you're connecting with your body. And you'll want to, because it's fucking fascinating. Still though, keep an eye out for that trap.

  5. #25
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Samuel,

    I must ask... why do you feel that you need to develop one-pointedness?

  6. #26
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Study formal logic. Mathematics if you can even. Take time out of the day (1 or 2 hours) to do nothing. Just sit and think. The former should clearly engage your Ti and latter Ti in connection with Si. Once you get comfortable with the Ti-Si axis, it should be much easier for you to develop a focus. Ti gives a clear direction to your perceptions and Si carves out a single, concrete path of perception rather than many abstract perceptions as commonly produced by Ne.

    (When you study formal logic, make an effort to learn the conventional symbolism, this will train your Si as well. For the sake of pure Ti, read literature on logic and philosophy of mathematics. Expose yourself to philosophy the best you can, but logic is the best way to train your Ti, symbolic logic to train your Ti-Si)
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  7. #27
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I recently indirectly was made aware that it is in fact the T-S connection that when searching for a more logical proweness is important. Comes completly new too me and I need to dig into this, but your advise surely is good and understandable .

    Still one thing that bugs me:

    Take time out of the day (1 or 2 hours) to do nothing
    xDD I guess this is just impossible xD
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #28
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    this is probably not a mainly ENTP thing. for starters, this is precisely my biggest problem. i think any NP will have this problem. we like new things and creativity but we are also spontaneous and don't like things so structured. it's only natural for us to not finish projects if we find there we are particularly stale or have new interests. this is definitely a problem, as it would be nice to see some finished products. however, i don't think we have these projects always with a goal in mind. i think we like to be mentally stimulated, creatively stimulated etc. and that is the point in itself. therefore, when we don't find a project exciting anymore, the 'point' is no longer there, so we move on.

  9. #29
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    this is probably not a mainly ENTP thing. for starters, this is precisely my biggest problem. i think any NP will have this problem. we like new things and creativity but we are also spontaneous and don't like things so structured. it's only natural for us to not finish projects if we find there we are particularly stale or have new interests. this is definitely a problem, as it would be nice to see some finished products. however, i don't think we have these projects always with a goal in mind. i think we like to be mentally stimulated, creatively stimulated etc. and that is the point in itself. therefore, when we don't find a project exciting anymore, the 'point' is no longer there, so we move on.
    Ti likes an internal structure of thought. This is the function that an ENTP needs to develop to become more put together. Developing Te has a similar effect on the NFP.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #30
    Mud and rain and chaos... TickTock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I have found that the best way to do this to forget thinking in terms of a means to an end. In fact forget the end completely. Nothing is ever finished because with each step the information changes and new possibilities present themselves in which one thing can lead to another. However if you stop something before it is finished you gained nothing and the possibilities for growth are limited.

    After years of feeling like I kept repeating life with no growth, except maybe a reasonable knowledge, to show for it I began to focus on the levels of actualization. By keeping the bigger picture in mind it has helped me to realize that all the things I must complete now are not indefinite but necessary. Without an immediate end in sight my goals have become larger and my interest necessary for the bigger picture.

    I get shit done.
    I do this, without realizing it. I used to be enthuse about knew things and then lose interest, in some ways I still do. What changed is having the bigger picture in mind. Then all the little things start not to matter. I still don't complete things, but they aren't important. If I've already gotten out of it as much as I want then why carry on? Like some people have mentioned. As long as I'm adding to the bigger picture and completing stuff that will help that a long. Then you're free to do what ever you want. The knock on affect as things in the big picture get done, other things start to as well.

    IN short, it's all about having a direction and worrying about never finishing things likely stems from not knowing what it is you want to get out of it.

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