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  1. #1
    Injustice Needs To stoP RandomINTP's Avatar
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    Default What do you think of SJs?

    Recently, some people here didn't like it how I hated on SJs. I wanted to post my opinion, and apparently, it's not a popular one. So this time I'm going to be neutral, having no opinion, and asking you guys out there, my dear NTs, what you think about SJs, because I want to hear your opinion about SJs, since some NTs were opposing me. If you think everyone is individual, and it can't be generalized, keep that thought and don't even comment, because I heard that opinion and I respect it. If you want to comment, state your opinion. NFs and SPs are welcome, too. Without further ado, let's head to my question.

    NTs, what do you think of SJs, in general?
    MBTI:
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    "Only two things are infinite. The universe, and human stupidity, but I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
    "You know you're in love when you can't fall asleep because reality is finally better than your dreams." -Dr. Seuss
    "If you want to know what a man is like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." -J. K. Rowling

  2. #2
    Suave y Fuerte BadOctopus's Avatar
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    I like them. They're practical and easygoing and down-to-earth. And they're almost always responsible and conscientious, and those traits are becoming increasingly rare. I get along better with the introverted ones, but I've known plenty of ESTJs and ESFJs who were pretty awesome. (Shout out to @EJCC, @SD45T-2, and @Showbread!)
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  3. #3
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Like a lot of people, it's about balance and health.

    But of course balance and health are conditional and also relative. One person's health is another's illness etc. Although I would say I observe that the ability to accept (or rather consider) new information, even if it contradicts your solidly held assumptions, is the important factor and I think anyone can develop that quality. But then again delivery can be important and hostility produces resistance out of biology.

    Effort is key too, I can claim to take on advice all I want, but until I form a way of actioning that and stick to it my claim is pointless.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #4
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    I tend to not like people who are stupid, unethical/dishonest, full of it, always saying the dumbest things, unable to admit they're wrong, narrow-minded/prejudiced/judgmental, obsessed with telling everyone what to do, obsessed with saying they are better than everyone else, unhappy unless everyone is miserable, etc, and this often ends up being what guardians are like. I can feel my brain shutting down around them, and it's not long before I'm miserable.

    I can see how guardians can be reliable and how others would see them that way, but that's not what I've experienced. In my life, they almost always ended up being stupid, full of it, and unable to do even the simplest things without messing everything up. They like to make it seem as though they did what was required (and that it was someone else that failed) and then go on to claim they should be rewarded/acknowledged for what they've done, but it never ends up being true. They are frequently unethical, and I wouldn't trust them with anything. They like to look the part and to appear ethical, strict, reliable, and trustworthy, but it always ends up being more BS.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member great_bay's Avatar
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    Here's what I think of people's functions and myself

    Ti-Hero
    Ne-Good parenting
    Si- Forever young
    Fe- Feminine part of a person's personality

    Te- Opposing
    Ni-Witch
    Se- Trickier
    Fi- Devil

    Si-Te-Fi-Ne, ISTJ
    Forever young, Opposing, Devil, good parenting

    Si-Fe-Ti-Ne, ISFJ
    Forever Young,Feminine part of a person's personality, Hero, and Good parenting
    Te-Si-Ne-Fi, ESTJ
    Opposing, Forever Young, Good parenting, Devil

    Fe-Si-Ne-Ti, ESFJ'
    Feminine part of a person's personality, Forever young, Good parenting, and Hero

  6. #6
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    NTs, what do you think of SJs, in general?
    Some of the most responsible and trustworthy people I know have been SJ's, including my own father. Some of the biggest naysayers and micromanagers have been SJs, including my current boss. My former boss was also an SJ, and completely the opposite, though. Present a good case for something, and he would support it 100%. My current boss will simply nitpick it to death, and make sure to find some rule that it violates in order to say "no".

    So, some pluses and minuses, though a bit different with each type/temperament.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  7. #7
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    I know several and I think they are very reliable, practical and straight forward. That said, they can be micro managers, they can also be repetitive and their instinct is to go by the book, always. Ones that can get away from those negative tendencies, even somewhat, are easy to work with for me.

    Maybe I have been fortunate to have been around healthy ones but I wouldn't call any of them unethical or dishonest, quite the opposite. Not stupid either.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  8. #8
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I've had some issues with SJ types in the past and I also have some really good experiences with SJs as well. As with any type, it's less about the type and more about the maturity; immature people act immaturely and out of fear (in accordance with the peccadilloes of their type), and mature people act, well, maturely and out of grace/inner confidence (in accordance with the strengths of their type).

    But to generalize some issues:

    Typically my bad experiences with SJs have been within power structures -- workplaces to a degree, and religious institutions to a higher degree. (Why? Because people who fear ambiguity will move to structures that reduce/eradicate ambiguity. They feel more powerful -- their roles are defined -- and secure there.) My good experiences have also occurred, though, in the same locations as well as during personal one-on-one's.

    I typically get along very well with ISJs, especially the ISFJs... but INTP and ISFJ are just swapped dom/aux pairs anyway. (TiNeSiFe vs SiFeTiNe) You can find parts of yourself in the other. ISFJs are extremely dependable and consistent, from my perspective; and if they make me a promise, I can rest assured they will kill themselves trying to keep it. (Of course, they will anticipate the same from me.) Very sensible, very practical and with a sense of what works realistically and what does not, although they can be timid with trying new things or taking risks.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #9
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Working in an heavy SJ environment is tough...

    I'm a CPA. on Friday we had a young ENFP leave after just 8 months of work here. There were immediate signs that he was different; of course I picked up on the type differences, others had other names for it. I think the most glaring was that he was studying for his CFA instead of his CPA. That should have been a huge red flag to my bosses, but I think they were salivating for other reasons. Anyway, while he wasn't happy here, he was trying to make the best of it, you know, get some experience and move on. But my peers- his supervisors-made it hard on him and that resulted in an early, unusual exit. (It's taboo to leave a CPA firm before April 15. )

    Anyway, as we were talking about him, one of my co-workers said how black and white accounting is.....that immediately smacked me as a cold reminder LOL. I think basing type interactions on work alone can jade you towards certain types. As an NT accountant, working with SJ accountants made it clear I was different. For some, if you get them outside of work, they are actually not bad to be around, although it's clear (to me) that I can't and won't go there on certain subjects.

    Outside of work, I have some good relationships with SJs. I don't want to say I tolerate them, because it sounds like I'm ready to peace out at the first opportunity, but there is some level of....difference, that is present. Some don't mind the full IZ, they love the fact they can't predict what I'm going to say, I'm the crazy one....one even calls it the" IZ brain".... but some may be a bit put off. Not that I'm saying anything offensive, either. Maybe I'm trying to say the quality isn't usually there. That's all.

    Oddly enough, my best relationships from work have been with the following 'CPAs': 2 INTJs, and ENFJ, an ENTP, and one ISTJ.
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  10. #10
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    I think it really depends on the environment that you work at. I don't have hard time working with SJ's as long as you agree with all the rules they're willing to work by, but I don't get any drive from them. Being very by the book can be tough and not very understanding when it comes to breaking rules except if the leader is absolutely okay, but it's only that exception. No further assumptions.

    Or other SJ's talk about how "rebellious" they were in the past and were proud of it but then everything in the "Now" is not okay can frustrate me, although I meet fewer SJ's who are rebellious as it's more of SP's I see that follow more of the I do what I want attitude sometimes too far.

    tl;dr: As long as I'm not deeply involved within the group they are in, I find it fine to work with them.

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