[NT] Why must I have feelings....

[Paris34]

No, no! Not feelings, *bucket of feelings gets thrown on me and I melt onto the ground*, "I'm melting, I'm melting."

Okay, so now that thats out of my system. My feels. I don't want my feels. They just need to leave me alone, I hate feeling overly sensitive, and emotional, but after being depressed I know I can't just numb them away with avoidance, thats not an appropriate technique to use. *feels like a teacher is disapprovingly lecturing the emotionally tormented child with in me*

So I'll be open and honest. And rant, okay people probably don't want to hear my rambles, but here goes:

Ok I'm pissed at my friend. Okay I'm not pissed at him I love him, but he's pissing me off. He's cool now and accepting of me, but I desperately need to talk with my friend. Regardless of my feelings for him, its been over two months since I talked in person/skyped with either of my two best friends. And out of those two only one really knows me for me, and he's currently too busy to skype...or even chat for longer than 5 min on FB messenger... after I sent him a 3 page coming out letter-email... a month ago, and only heard back last week.

Gah. Its killing me just letting this boil and stew, I hate feeling so isolated. I just want to talk to him. I'm going through a rough time abroad right now and for safety reasons I'm having to stay closeted. He knows that I'm having a hard time, and I know he's obviously busy with work, but is 20 min skype conversation with your best friend who you haven't talked to in months too much to ask for?


*end rant*

If any one wants to comment or chat I'm just moody and feeling abandoned/isolated so ... yeah.... I'll stop my rambles now. thanks for reading.

 

[gromit]

UGH that is really rough. Wish I were qualified to give you some better perspective on this.

 

[BadOctopus]

I hear ya. Feelings are messy and inconvenient. Who needs 'em? (Unfortunately, we all do. That's why they suck.)

I felt the same way when my best friend got married and had a baby. We used to do everything together, and then she just had this whole new life, and I was barely in it anymore. We're still best friends, but the whole dynamic has changed, and for a long time, I really didn't like the way it had changed. But change is just part of life, and we have to learn to change with it.

Maybe this change in your friendship is inevitable, but maybe the former closeness can be salvaged. Don't give up. Send him an email or FB message, telling him your concerns. Be honest. Don't just keep stewing silently in misery over it. That won't help anything.

 

[Paris34]

[MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION]: Thanks for the response Yeah I'm just weirdly moody/ exhausted lately. Immersion in a foreing language while questioning gender identity can do that to a person a I guess.

(Ah yes, the gender coming out, that was the topic of the letter ... it took him time to respond to, but nah he's been cool, we've just both been busy, and i miss him is all.)

Its lonely when you're abroad and stuck with a group from your home University of 10 girls (and unfortunately thats counting me according to the rest of the world). And trust me, while I'm completely emotionally exhausted, I'm also laughing m.a.o at the hilarity that is my life right now... I mean how many people can say *clears throat* "I'm a female assigned at birth person, who although is out as a lesbian no longer wishes to identify as such because I have since realized that my gender is more male than female. And I happen to have started falling for my guy best friend (maybe) who is a straight guy. But I can't date him (even if he saw me that way too) because doing so would make me feel like I was invalidating my gender." *laughs and shakes head at self*

Haha, nah, but its not too bad. And I've been chatting on line with him, its just not the same as actually talking.

 

[gromit]

I know there are a couple members on here who have experienced a gender/sex transition who might have more context...

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around it (obviously probably related to me having the privilege of not having struggles in that part of my identity), but I just wish people could be who they are instead of us having to put labels on everything.

I suppose as humans that we simplify by categorizing, so maybe it's easier/less exhausting to just get a new label instead of trying to smash through the whole concept of labels, or at least expanding the labels to be more inclusive of a wider range of characteristics. It seems some people are ok having traits outside of what is stereotypical of their gender/sex, but for some people it is just too much, to the point that they feel they ARE the other gender/sex inside, not just a woman who is direct/analytical/isn't interested in fashion (or a man who is sensitive and non-confrontational and loves cooking/keeping a welcoming home).

So if surgeries or hormones or just a new label are what a person needs to feel ok about interacting with the world then who is anyone to judge, really? right?

 

[Paris34]

[MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION]:

Yeah, feelings are what make humanity, and without them life would be dull, but the negative ones really can suck sometimes. Even though I know without the negatives we'd never learn to appreciate the positives. And earlier I was over reacting a bit, I mean he has been there, we haven't really talked much about my gender, but we've texted and chatted a bit; its more a feeling of general isolation than his fault at this point.

No LGBT+ centers in the little town I'm studying in. No gender therapists; no therapists in general. Not exactly a good idea to start asking people to call me male pronouns. Having to put up with constantly being misgenderd and treated like a girl (including getting my hair braided - i really need to chop it off-, going bra shopping with the girls, getting stuck in conversations about monthly feminine hygiene, ect.), all the while acting happy because study abroad is a once in a life time experience... then calling home and having to keep up the act that study abroad is perfect, and that I'm not dying inside when I'm being lovingly misgendered by my parents... and then putting on a smile for my host family who I adore, because I don't want them to think they did something wrong, I'm just tired.

I just want to be able to finally, finally talk to a friend who knows the crap I'm dealing with and is supportive of me.

And I'm sorry about your friend. Its never quite the same after something big shifts a friendship.

 

[Coriolis]

No LGBT+ centers in the little town I'm studying in. No gender therapists; no therapists in general. Not exactly a good idea to start asking people to call me male pronouns. Having to put up with constantly being misgenderd and treated like a girl (including getting my hair braided - i really need to chop it off-, going bra shopping with the girls, getting stuck in conversations about monthly feminine hygiene, ect.), all the while acting happy because study abroad is a once in a life time experience... then calling home and having to keep up the act that study abroad is perfect, and that I'm not dying inside when I'm being lovingly misgendered by my parents... and then putting on a smile for my host family who I adore, because I don't want them to think they did something wrong, I'm just tired.

I am female and have never had any patience with things like the highlighted. I have also never had any problem saying "no, thanks" to offers to be included. I realize just saying no can be trickier when one is abroad with hosts and trying to be courteous, but you might be able to get out of more of it just by showing them you're "not the kind of girl who is interested in those things" without saying anything about the broader gender issue.

Study abroad is a once in a lifetime experience. I have done it myself, and understand both the benefits and the desire to put your best foot foward and perhaps accept things you wouldn't at home, just to get along. You mention above "acting happy". In one particularly stressful period (not a study abroad), it actually helped for me to think of myself as playacting. I was performing an expected role which really didn't have much to do with the "real me" inside, any more than I actually became Aunt Polly in a teenage production of Tom Sawyer. That might help you get some distance on the situation and do what you need to do without feeling personally dragged down by it.

I suppose as humans that we simplify by categorizing, so maybe it's easier/less exhausting to just get a new label instead of trying to smash through the whole concept of labels, or at least expanding the labels to be more inclusive of a wider range of characteristics. It seems some people are ok having traits outside of what is stereotypical of their gender/sex, but for some people it is just too much, to the point that they feel they ARE the other gender/sex inside, not just a woman who is direct/analytical/isn't interested in fashion (or a man who is sensitive and non-confrontational and loves cooking/keeping a welcoming home).

The highlighted describes my experience. When I was young (<13) I sometimes wished I had been born a boy, but only because it seemed boys had more fun, better choices, and more opportunities. By the time I got into high school, I realized I could do the same things, too, whether that was what I studied, what I wore, how I acted -- anything. I didn't have to be biologically male for any of it. I suppose this is the difference between someone like me and someone who really does feel he/she was born into the wrong body. To me, my physiology is just luck of the draw. I am female in this life. Had I been male, I'm not sure I would have needed to change too much. As you say, I am simply me.

 

[Paris34]

I know there are a couple members on here who have experienced a gender/sex transition who might have more context...

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around it (obviously probably related to me having the privilege of not having struggles in that part of my identity), but I just wish people could be who they are instead of us having to put labels on everything.

I suppose as humans that we simplify by categorizing, so maybe it's easier/less exhausting to just get a new label instead of trying to smash through the whole concept of labels, or at least expanding the labels to be more inclusive of a wider range of characteristics. It seems some people are ok having traits outside of what is stereotypical of their gender/sex, but for some people it is just too much, to the point that they feel they ARE the other gender/sex inside, not just a woman who is direct/analytical/isn't interested in fashion (or a man who is sensitive and non-confrontational and loves cooking/keeping a welcoming home).

So if surgeries or hormones or just a new label are what a person needs to feel ok about interacting with the world then who is anyone to judge, really? right?

I can only define my own experience as trans, and every trans person has a different experience. But I can try to explain a bit if you want to understand how I personally experience it better.

For starters gender isn't sex. And gender is less of a boy/girl, black/white, yin/ yang, MBTI Dichotomy and more complex and nuanced. Its more like a spectrum with an infinite amount of colors. Gender is how someone feels on the inside, while sex is what is defined at birth (male, female, intersex).

And, I suppose the whole categorizing thing is true to an extent, but labels can give people so much relief and piece of mind when their entire life they've felt like an outsider. You might be able to understand a bit through MBTI labels, but its trivial in comparison to something as known to society as gender. So to finally have a word that describes this strange feeling you've had your whole life, and to learn that this word means your not alone, and that there are other's who can empathize with your struggles. That's extremely reassuring. Its nice to have something stable to hold onto when it feels like your entire world might collapse around you at any minute, even if that something is just a word.

And gender isn't about gender roles, at all. It has very little to do with feeling like you don't fit into those. Its just something you know you are. When you know it you can feel it with every fiber of your being. When I look at my best friend I feel like a guy. When I tie my shoes I feel male. Doing the simplest things I feel male, because I am a guy. I don't even particularly pay attention to gender roles, (who are we kidding? Of course I don't, I'm an INTP I ain't got time for that. lol ) Yet, I know my interests will make so, soo many people question my trans identity if I ever decide to tell people about how i feel because soft spoken, kind hearted, patient, polite, listens to 'girly' music, likes pastel colors, loves disney songs, obsessed with Frozen and all disney princesses, played with barbies growing up, and likes painting, doesn't exactly read as male; especially when you are in a body that the world views a female.

But when you cry every time you hear the song reflection because you know your true identity is hidden behind a veil, then you can just sort of ignore the stupid stereotypes. They aren't what makes people trans.

But, I do like and completely agree with your last phrase

 

[Paris34]

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around it

Okay, so I have thing, where if someone doesn't understand something I try my hardest to help make it clearer of easier for them to understand. I have a weird urge to want to help people learn (lol, maybe I should be a professor)...

And this isn't just for [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION]: if any one else wants to try to understand what its like to be trans, read on my lovelies, read on:

So the issue cis gender people tend to have (cis: person who's gender and sex align) is that when faced with the issue of trying to empathize with a trans person they find they can't. Which is totally understandable. You're not trans, so how are you supposed to know how that might feel?

But what I'm realizing is that they approach the whole "put yourself in the other person's shoes" the wrong way. Typically, a cis male would try and empathize by thinking "so if I were trans, then I'd want to be a girl." And he tries and he tries, but he can't quite empathize because he doesn't want to be female. Or he simply assumes that his gender would automatically align with his brain if he were female.

Instead, the question to reflect on instead is: How would I a man, feel if I were so easily mistaken for a woman that I had to pretend to be one, and not even my best friends or parents knew it was all an act?



Here's a scenario to help get the imagination flowing (assuming reader is cis male, if female merely switch descriptors/pronouns):

Imagine you wake up one morning, to your mother shouting across the house, "Sarah! Get your butt out of bed young lady, you're going to be late!"I just want to sleep... wait Sarah? young lady? Does she mean me? She must just be having a moment of memory loss.You're a tad confused, but you get out of bed, she's right, you don't want to be late for school. But then you hear it again. "Sarah, I'm leaving for work, the bus comes in 10 min, I don't want to hear that you missed it again." God you hate that name, why does she keep calling you that. wait a minute? That's not my name, is it? Ugh its so girly.

You have to rush to get ready, and make the bus just in time. You sit down and some of your female friends come over to join you. "Hey," you say. They respond, back and begin chatting about school and what not, even some surprisingly interesting conversation about philosophy. But you feel a bit off being the only guy present, and then even more uncomfortable when oddly enough they start talking about the male population like there are no guys present. *um I'm right here you think* And then you do a double take when one of them say, "Yeah, I was talking with Sarah the other day about this, she made the best point..." Wait? What did Jane just say, did she just call me 'she'? What on earth? Has she met me, I'm pretty obviously not female. What is going on today? It takes you a second to catch back up with the conversation after being caught off guard, but you get back and its okay.

You get to school and have your first class, creative writing. Your professor is handing back assignments. When he hands you back your short that was based on your personal feelings about a life experience, its not even your name at the top that confuses you, now its the comment in red at the top makes your blood boil. "The male perspective in your story wasn't believable. Try connecting more with your masculine side more next time, see me if you need help. C-" You have to restrain yourself from ripping the paper to shreds right there in class. How on earth can the male perspective not be believable? I, a guy wrote this from my own experience.

You need take minute, so you excuse yourself to go to the bathroom. You walk down the hall, so frustrated that you aren't seen as guy. What's going on with everyone today you wonder? And when you are just about to step into the mens room, your friend who was just leaving the ladies room giggles and says "not your best day, eh Sarah? I think you meant to go in here," and she gently guides into the 'correct' room.

You walk into the restroom, and are alone luckily, but then you see a mirror and for the first time that day you see your reflection. It looks male enough to you, so why is everyone treating you like a girl? But then you hear "she," "young lady," "Sarah," all echoing through your mind and slowly you start to notice your more feminine features. And then it hits you like a ton of bricks, people are only seeing the superficial female qualities of me, and every one you know thinks your a girl. You almost have a breakdown there in the bathroom when this realization makes you begin to hyperventilate. But you take a deep breath, center yourself, and return to class; because what else can you do?

 

[ancalagon]

So the issue cis gender people tend to have (cis: person who's gender and sex align) is that when faced with the issue of trying to empathize with a trans person they find they can't. Which is totally understandable. You're not trans, so how are you supposed to know how that might feel?

But what I'm realizing is that they approach the whole "put yourself in the other person's shoes" the wrong way. Typically, a cis male would try and empathize by thinking "so if I were trans, then I'd want to be a girl." And he tries and he tries, but he can't quite empathize because he doesn't want to be female. Or he simply assumes that his gender would automatically align with his brain if he were female.

I have a brother who is trans, and when I first heard about it, I did the obvious thought experiment, and asked myself if I'd been born female whether I'd want to be male. Basically, the answer was "Meh. Not really." I might be tomboyish, probably a lesbian, and certainly nerdy, but none of those things are actually anti-female. If I were magically transformed into a female now, it would probably be awhile before I completely adjusted, but I think I would be able to adjust, and if I'd been born female I can't imagine having a problem with it.

At least, that seemed to me to be the obvious thought experiment, whereas the one you describe is the opposite. I thought of it as "let's see if I have feelings that would cause me problems in a different body". The other one seems to be more like "let me see if I can force myself to have feelings I don't have".

The above is my straight cis male reaction, I have no idea if it is typical for straight cis males.

Instead, the question to reflect on instead is: How would I a man, feel if I were so easily mistaken for a woman that I had to pretend to be one, and not even my best friends or parents knew it was all an act?

In trying to imagine this, I run into the problem that it doesn't seem realistic. If I were often mistaken for a woman, why would I pretend to be one? Why would people close to me, at least, not know? In the scenario, do I have man-parts or woman-parts? If woman-parts, I wouldn't see it as being mistaken for a woman, I'd see it as being one. If man-parts, then I could, in theory at least (not that I'd actually do it), whip my dick out and prove them wrong. (I wonder if inability to whip out appropriate anatomy as proof is part of the problem for transpeople.)

I do think I get the feeling you're trying to get across, though. When I graduated from high-school and they called my name to walk across the stage and get my diploma, they said "Michelle" instead of "Michael". The lady quickly corrected herself, but I was still annoyed by it. That's the only time that sort of thing has happened to me, but I can see how it would be rather unpleasant, especially if it happened all the time.

 

[Coriolis]

Okay, so I have thing, where if someone doesn't understand something I try my hardest to help make it clearer of easier for them to understand. I have a weird urge to want to help people learn (lol, maybe I should be a professor)...

And this isn't just for [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION]: if any one else wants to try to understand what its like to be trans, read on my lovelies, read on:

So the issue cis gender people tend to have (cis: person who's gender and sex align) is that when faced with the issue of trying to empathize with a trans person they find they can't. Which is totally understandable. You're not trans, so how are you supposed to know how that might feel?

But what I'm realizing is that they approach the whole "put yourself in the other person's shoes" the wrong way. Typically, a cis male would try and empathize by thinking "so if I were trans, then I'd want to be a girl." And he tries and he tries, but he can't quite empathize because he doesn't want to be female. Or he simply assumes that his gender would automatically align with his brain if he were female.

Instead, the question to reflect on instead is: How would I a man, feel if I were so easily mistaken for a woman that I had to pretend to be one, and not even my best friends or parents knew it was all an act?

Here's a scenario to help get the imagination flowing (assuming reader is cis male, if female merely switch descriptors/pronouns):

This is an interesting exercise. I have to admit, I have had many of the same reactions to people who take in the feminine aspects of my superfical appearance and make assumptions about who I am and what I am like based on that. I have bristled at being called things like "young lady", or the conversation about guys on the bus, or even the insulting homework critique, not to mention hearing my name all day, which I detest. It has never felt to me, however, that people were seeing me as a woman when I am a man, but rather that they simply aren't seeing the real me. They are expecting me to be like all the other women they know, rather than allowing for the possibility that a woman can be different. But then that's why I am not transgender, but simply an atypical woman. From the other perspective, it doesn't bother me much if people mistake me for a guy. I look and sound unambiguously female, though, so that only happens online or in writing.