User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 13

  1. #1
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    MBTI
    NiTe
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    572

    Default ENTJ - ENTP problems, do solutions exist?

    I'm an ENTJ, close enough. I'm convinced I use Ni more than or at least as much as Te, but I'm definitely an extrovert, but nevermind my personal opinions, everyone I know who knows about typology sees me as ENTJ.

    My best friend from childhood was an ENTP. From 8 or 9 yrs. old I was attracted to her personality because there was this independent smartness to it or something that I apparently instinctively like. I've had the same reaction to two other female ENTPs I've met, although to a lesser extent.

    Once we got older, I had more conflicts with her than anyone else I knew.

    After a certain point, predictably I became interested in her as more than a friend, and the same was true for her, probably rather earlier but I didn't see it. It didn't go too far because I became incredibly frustrated at the way she was thinking about things, not totally sure why, but it seemed like she was incredibly stubborn and wasn't able to see things my way. So eventually I felt insulted and frustrated and sick of the whole thing, and I think she may have felt the same, and we moved on.

    Afterwards, I became really regretful and mainly just dwelt on how much I liked her, but at the same time I really didn't want to do anything about it. I couldn't push her around, which I appreciated because I know I have a tendency to do that; I don't want in a longterm relationship to be always having to 'hold back' lest I hurt someone.

    Anyhow, now I have an opportunity to patch things up with her, although of course I don't know for sure if she'd forgive me. But if I try, I think so. But I'm hesitant whether this could ever work; once I get closer to her again I'll probably become emotionally involved and lose my head; I'll want to get married, and we'll end up getting divorced five years later . . . or so I am imagining it . . .

    Does anyone have stories of how the conflict dynamic between ENTP and ENTJ has been successfully overcome?

    Or not?
    Formerly Lion4!5

  2. #2
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    3w2
    Posts
    815

    Default

    I've been hovering over this thread since it started to see if any solutions would be offered. All I have to offer are stories about face-palm-awkward-ten-car-pile-up type of interactions with ENTJs.

    The interactions I've had with ENTJs have been like bright, shiny fireworks. This goes for both men and women. I find them interesting and witty. However, it never seems to end well/last long because we both care more about winning the debate than about learning about the other person, and the fireworks start to look more like a forest fire approaching an oil rig.

    There was one particular gentlemen I worked in school groups with in uni. I affectionately referred to him as Demon Spawn to my family because we bickered so much throughout all our projects. He never seemed to compromise on ideas from the group, and I was frustrated because I wanted to push the envelope and be more innovative, or at least more cooperative. (Darned Fe, go sit in the corner and think about what you've done) After our last (exhausting) project was over, he asked me out on a date. I was so sure that he was just about to chew me out again for being a pain in his ass, when he instead asked me out I was in a bit of shock. I don't remember my response, but I'm certain it didn't make a lot of sense.

    Maybe things would have been different if we weren't both so focused on being right all the time. But then, we wouldn't have been true to our stubborn selves, you know?
    Likes BlackDog liked this post

  3. #3
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    MBTI
    NiTe
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    572

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    Maybe things would have been different if we weren't both so focused on being right all the time. But then, we wouldn't have been true to our stubborn selves, you know?
    Exactly. Since I posted this, I moved in the direction I wanted to. She was really friendly, but as soon as we started talking we began disagreeing over ordinary topics of conversation. Maybe I should try just listening . . . but that isn't sustainable for any length of time.

    I actually think that what is happening is just my ordinary style of conversation clashing with hers. Because if I'm in a non-work setting with people who aren't going to be offended or take things personally, I like to state my opinion strongly, and if someone disagrees it's interesting. But that only works when our conversation doesn't have to go anywhere, because if things need to be decided then you have to have one direction.
    Formerly Lion4!5

  4. #4
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    I'm an ENTJ, close enough. I'm convinced I use Ni more than or at least as much as Te, but I'm definitely an extrovert, but nevermind my personal opinions, everyone I know who knows about typology sees me as ENTJ.
    If Te operates in support of Ni for you, you're an INTJ. Just one who's more outgoing than usual.

    It's not really a question of "strength" as much as it is, which one do you go to first. In a very simplistic sense, an ENTJ seeks first to "control," while an INTJ seeks first to "understand." There's some overlap, but it seems fairly accurate. In enneagram terms, ENTJ are more likely to be type 8, while INTJ are more likely to be type 5.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  5. #5
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    MBTI
    NiTe
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    572

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    If Te operates in support of Ni for you, you're an INTJ. Just one who's more outgoing than usual.

    It's not really a question of "strength" as much as it is, which one do you go to first. In a very simplistic sense, an ENTJ seeks first to "control," while an INTJ seeks first to "understand." There's some overlap, but it seems fairly accurate. In enneagram terms, ENTJ are more likely to be type 8, while INTJ are more likely to be type 5.
    See, I think that sometimes my Ni supports my Te, sometimes my Te supports my Ni. It all seems pretty dynamic to me.

    If something suddenly changes, then I seek to control first because there might not be time to Ni stuff first. You have to be able to seize the moment.

    But I won't say that always works.

    And if I have time, I think it is wiser to take another look rather than to just try to force things. It's just that probably 2/3 of the time, the quick solution is just fine, and the issue isn't worth considering first.

    Can you tease apart which is 'in support'? Both are in support of whatever I want to do.

    I identify as type 8, but it's not a perfect overlap. According to the guy who runs WSS on youtube, there is no Enneagram type that precisely fits the ENTJ 'desire' to control the future so that a good outcome happens.
    Formerly Lion4!5

  6. #6
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    See, I think that sometimes my Ni supports my Te, sometimes my Te supports my Ni. It all seems pretty dynamic to me.

    If something suddenly changes, then I seek to control first because there might not be time to Ni stuff first. You have to be able to seize the moment.

    But I won't say that always works.

    And if I have time, I think it is wiser to take another look rather than to just try to force things. It's just that probably 2/3 of the time, the quick solution is just fine, and the issue isn't worth considering first.

    Can you tease apart which is 'in support'? Both are in support of whatever I want to do.

    I identify as type 8, but it's not a perfect overlap. According to the guy who runs WSS on youtube, there is no Enneagram type that precisely fits the ENTJ 'desire' to control the future so that a good outcome happens.
    You could be either one. Not saying you aren't ENTJ, just to look into it and do the research before coming to a conclusion. A lot of people will say it doesn't matter, but I think it does, because it can help you, knowing your tendencies, to improve and become a more complete person.

    I'm definitely an INTJ, and let me tell you how it is for me:

    I want more than nothing else, to know all the things. I can be dominating, but that's really only if I interpret somebody as attacking a core part of who I am. My default is not to impress my will onto anybody else. In all honesty, while I do take empirical evidence very seriously (like any TJ), I am more likely to look for evidence to support a belief I've already intuitively developed, than to determine my beliefs based on the evidence. A Te-dom I think will be more likely to do the latter. There's a reason INTJs are seen as super--intelligent and always being a step ahead, and it's not necessarily because it's true. We're just very good at recognizing patterns an operating on the seat of our pants. I know a lot of ENTJs relate somewhat to that too, but I don't think it's quite to the same degree.

    Whatever type you are, the most important thing is that you accept it and work with it, and use it as an opportunity to improve, and not as some sort of badge of honor. Don't be the stereotype. Be yourself.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window
    Likes BlackDog liked this post

  7. #7
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    MBTI
    NiTe
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    572

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    You could be either one. Not saying you aren't ENTJ, just to look into it and do the research before coming to a conclusion. A lot of people will say it doesn't matter, but I think it does, because it can help you, knowing your tendencies, to improve and become a more complete person.

    I'm definitely an INTJ, and let me tell you how it is for me:

    I want more than nothing else, to know all the things. I can be dominating, but that's really only if I interpret somebody as attacking a core part of who I am. My default is not to impress my will onto anybody else. In all honesty, while I do take empirical evidence very seriously (like any TJ), I am more likely to look for evidence to support a belief I've already intuitively developed, than to determine my beliefs based on the evidence. A Te-dom I think will be more likely to do the latter. There's a reason INTJs are seen as super--intelligent and always being a step ahead, and it's not necessarily because it's true. We're just very good at recognizing patterns an operating on the seat of our pants. I know a lot of ENTJs relate somewhat to that too, but I don't think it's quite to the same degree.

    Whatever type you are, the most important thing is that you accept it and work with it, and use it as an opportunity to improve, and not as some sort of badge of honor. Don't be the stereotype. Be yourself.
    See, that's why I say ENTJ, because I don't share your attitude to knowledge. To me, knowing everything sounds like being the best at Jeopardy. Who cares?

    Now, if by knowing everything you mean having a mental framework which can account for how the world works, even if you don't know the details, then I agree. Having that kind of vision is extremely useful and compelling.

    But to me, knowledge has to be a means to an end. It ultimately has to be about effecting change. Sometimes I do get way deeper into something than is useful, but I do keep in the back of my mind the idea of 'this is relevant/this is not relevant'. And if it isn't relevant, why should it clutter up my mental space?

    For that reason, I don't care about astronomy, to take one example, in the least. It doesn't matter. When we start going to space, it'll matter. Until then, not relevant. Sure, it exists, but why would I waste my time learning about a bunch of rocks and empty space that I can never impact in any way? For me, it almost doesn't exist, because it's totally irrelevant, worthless knowledge. Again, for me; I'm sure many uses like satellites have come from astronomy. It just doesn't affect me.

    On the other hand, the whole dominating thing is way overexaggerated. In the first place, why would I waste my time messing with people in power struggles over stuff that isn't relevant to me? In the second place, that kind of activity can actually undermine your power because if you are struggling, it shows you actually aren't so dominant after all, doesn't it? Loud bossy people aren't the dominant ones, they're the would-be dominant people. The dominant guy is the one who is listened to when he speaks.

    That said, that isn't me. Not as a generalization. I want to get to that point, but I've got a long way to go first.

    So I guess I agree with you to an extent, that you shouldn't embrace a stereotype per se. But you should want to be as effective as possible in pursuing your goals. If that happens to fall in line with a stereotype, then it doesn't matter either way; do what works.

    I'm sounding like an ENTJ stereotype here; I don't claim to actually act this way all the time. I wish I did, but I spend plenty of time just spinning my wheels. There's something wrong with that no matter what type I am, so I aspire to being much more effective. Who could disagree with that?
    Formerly Lion4!5

  8. #8
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    Now, if by knowing everything you mean having a mental framework which can account for how the world works, even if you don't know the details, then I agree. Having that kind of vision is extremely useful and compelling.
    That's more what I meant. Maybe understanding would be a better word than knowing. The jeopardy-loving, fact-sponge thing I think is more of an ISTJ or maybe ESTJ trait.


    From what you say, ENTJ definitely sounds more likely. The cutting out unimportant stuff like astronomy, sounds very ENTJ. It can also be an INTJ thing, but not to the same degree. As an INTJ, I don't like to bother with what I see as irrelevant either, but I think INTJ are likely to consider more things, relevant.

    Hope you find what you're looking for, whatever it ends up being.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window
    Likes BlackDog liked this post

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    5

    Default

    I'm an ENTP and my dad is an ENTJ. I've been looking for solutions for 20 years, and honestly.... not very many exist. The only advice I can give is that in my experience, ENTJs have a hard time understanding that disagreement is a hobby for us. I enjoy disagreeing, I would never want a friend I didn't disagree with. It's not an insult if I disagree with you or argue with you. With my dad, the moment I present a contradictory view he screams. He turns red, yells, and throws insults in every direction. Granted he's probably a very unhealthy ENTJ, most ENTJs have a similar reaction whether or not they show it externally. I think a big help in an ENTP-ENTJ relationship would be if the ENTJ didn't expect submission from the ENTP, and if the ENTP attempted to tone down their loud and argumentative side.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    For that reason, I don't care about astronomy, to take one example, in the least. It doesn't matter. When we start going to space, it'll matter. Until then, not relevant. Sure, it exists, but why would I waste my time learning about a bunch of rocks and empty space that I can never impact in any way? For me, it almost doesn't exist, because it's totally irrelevant, worthless knowledge. Again, for me; I'm sure many uses like satellites have come from astronomy. It just doesn't affect me.



    I'm sounding like an ENTJ stereotype here; I don't claim to actually act this way all the time. I wish I did, but I spend plenty of time just spinning my wheels. There's something wrong with that no matter what type I am, so I aspire to being much more effective. Who could disagree with that?

    You sound like an ESTJ to me. I've noticed the vast majority of ESTJ's type themselves as ENTJ's, but most N's have a thirst for knowledge and conceptual understanding that extends beyond what is necessary.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENTP] ENTPs: What do you look for in a partner?
    By Thessaly in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 99
    Last Post: 01-21-2017, 10:14 PM
  2. [ENTP] ENTPs, what do you think of the other types?
    By BlahBlahNounBlah in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 08-25-2016, 08:23 AM
  3. [ENTJ] ENTJ's; how do you defend yourself against your supervisor "The ISTP's?"
    By Lindaxo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 12-10-2015, 06:41 AM
  4. [ENTP] ENTPs how do you use your Se?
    By CJ99 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 12-16-2009, 06:04 PM
  5. [ENTP] ENTPs how do you stop yourselves being assholes
    By CJ99 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 05-10-2009, 12:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO