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  1. #11
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Well, it's just, why is it so important to you for me to say that you're right before you release me from your Vulcan death grip?
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  2. #12
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Well, it's just, why is it so important to you for me to say that you're right before you release me from your Vulcan death grip?
    A-fucking-men.

  3. #13
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    At every job that I've ever had (which has always been or lead to managerial/supervisory positions), my staff complains that I'm cold. I've actually been told that I'm efficient and goal-oriented to a fault.

    If anything, more like Tuvok's precision and indifference to feelings with Seven of Nine's drive for perfection.

    How on earth can anyone consider it difficult to report to someone who is blunt and clear in expectations? I mean, it's not like you ever wonder where you stand with this person.

    I'm even willing to help you learn to meet my expectations if you don't meet them now. You can't possibly meet them if you don't have the tools to do it.

    So, can someone explain to me where the complication is? Because I really don't get it.
    I don't think I have many problems with 'coldness' in the workplace - assuming it's not deliberate and coming from a mean-spirited place. Actually I have an INTJ coworker whose coldness and lack of any tactfulness simply amuses me - because I know people shouldn't really take it personally, she just has different goals/priorities than most. She and I actually get along pretty well. :-)

    But my ISFJ coworker has the hardest time with her. [and to be honest most people at one time or another has bristled at the INTJ's communication style, and she can rub people the wrong way] The ISFJ takes her comments and approach to work pretty personally, and feels rather belittled by the INTJ.

    But this situation proved to be one of the only practical applications of mbti I've found!!! I printed out an INTJ profile (my coworker, for better or worse, fits the stereotype to a T), gave it to my ISFJ coworker, and sat her down and explained to her that the INTJ simply operates in a different mode than she does. That the INTJ doesn't particularly care about the relationship/team dynamics as such, that she's all about efficiency, results, and the work/subject matter itself - and seeing that it is done well - rather than focusing on the teamwork/relationships to get it done. It seemed to help my ISFJ coworker when I told her all of this. (now I don't know if I was completely right in everything I said, but after I told her all of this -- just the two of them having totally different focuses/priorities in the workplace -- she thanked me and said "Now I have something I can work with, and can start trying to look at all of it differently."
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    The irony, of course, is that you are now here to whine to us about those who whine about you: they're too soft and sensitive, whereas you're too hard and cold. I would guess that according to each other's expectations, both are true. An unfortunate situation, though not beyond repair by those big enough to step outside of their comfort zone, and by the sound of things that will have to be you or nobody.
    Hmm. I had thought that it was an attempt to understand where my approach was flawed, rather than whining.

    How to repair it is where I'm at a loss. I can't just have a personality transplant and suddenly become cuddly. I didn't call *them* too soft and sensitive, btw. I was referring to my predecessor.

    Fortunately, I don't *have* to find alternate employment. I don't have to have employment, period. I went back to work because I was bored at home. But knowing me, I'll end up sucking it up because I have difficulty with quitting or giving up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Well, it's just, why is it so important to you for me to say that you're right before you release me from your Vulcan death grip?

    Because I'm right, damn it. I'm always right, I've always been right, and I always *will* be right. (And I'm kidding, btw.)

    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    I don't think I have many problems with 'coldness' in the workplace - assuming it's not deliberate and coming from a mean-spirited place. Actually I have an INTJ coworker whose coldness and lack of any tactfulness simply amuses me - because I know people shouldn't really take it personally, she just has different goals/priorities than most. She and I actually get along pretty well. :-)
    And there's the rub. Even when they were complaining (in tears, no less) about me, even then they didn't tell my boss that I'm "teh big meanie" or whatever.

    It's not that I'm mean, it's just that I don't get it. I suck at feelings. I'm great at measurable action.
    Last edited by proteanmix; 08-10-2008 at 02:54 PM. Reason: merged posts

  5. #15
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Hmm. I had thought that it was an attempt to understand where my approach was flawed, rather than whining.
    When I read your posts I felt as though someone was in the room whining, not just whining, but whining nonetheless. In any case, there is nothing wrong with whining so long as the complaints are well placed and the intention benign, the added emotion just means that you care about the situation and are motivated to do something about it. How motivated is another matter, especially when you can afford not to work.

    How to repair it is where I'm at a loss. I can't just have a personality transplant and suddenly become cuddly. I didn't call *them* too soft and sensitive, btw. I was referring to my predecessor.
    You can't have a personality transplant, and neither can those who you are complaining about, but fortunately nothing so drastic as a transplant is necessary. There are many things which come more "naturally" to us than others, but that does not mean we are incapable of learning them, doing them, or even excelling in them. The alcoholic may struggle against their personality to control an addiction, a philosopher may fight against his inclination to be dogmatic, and a nurse may strive to overcome a harsh bedside manner. There is often virtue and knowledge to be had in resisting our instincts or habits, and indeed civilisation would be far less civil if there were not, so perhaps the dispositions of your personality should not be so important.

    Fortunately, I don't *have* to find alternate employment. I don't have to have employment, period. I went back to work because I was bored at home. But knowing me, I'll end up sucking it up because I have difficulty with quitting or giving up.
    That is a very enviable position to be in. Again, I wish you luck in whatever you eventually decide to do.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #16
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    It's not that I'm mean, it's just that I don't get it. I suck at feelings. I'm great at measurable action.
    I believe you, and there's nothing 'wrong' with being great at measurable action, and nothing 'wrong' with being xNTJ.

    However, if you find the current state at work undesirable, you could try to work on the delivery a bit and cushion how you say things to others - be a bit more diplomatic in how you outline things/direct others, vs. just being blunt. I think anyone can learn to do this, while still maintaining integrity and staying true to yourself, so it doesn't have to be 'fake'.

    Of course you don't have to do that either. But I will say that when my INTJ coworker does go the more diplomatic/'mellow' route in delivery (I think my INFP boss has 'trained' her in how to do this ), you can feel the tension dissipating in the room, and people are more apt to respond or go with her plan. So the delivery itself can lead to more efficiency, or less.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #17
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    There's nothing at all wrong with being an xNTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    I believe you, and there's nothing 'wrong' with being great at measurable action, and nothing 'wrong' with being xNTJ.

    However, if you find the current state at work undesirable, you could try to work on the delivery a bit and cushion how you say things to others - be a bit more diplomatic in how you outline things/direct others, vs. just being blunt. I think anyone can learn to do this, while still maintaining integrity and staying true to yourself, so it doesn't have to be 'fake'.

    Of course you don't have to do that either. But I will say that when my INTJ coworker does go the more diplomatic/'mellow' route in delivery (I think my INFP boss has 'trained' her in how to do this ), you can feel the tension dissipating in the room, and people are more apt to respond or go with her plan. So the delivery itself can lead to more efficiency, or less.
    That was a good post, Cascademn.

  8. #18
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Being the boss is about people management, if your staff see you as cold and unapproachable and you recognise this is a problem than you need to fix it. Dealing with another NT this way usually fine and appreciated but you should invest in learning the best ways of getting the results you desire out of other types, letís face it the results are what you care about right.

    How on earth can anyone consider it difficult to report to someone who is blunt and clear in expectations? I mean, it's not like you ever wonder where you stand with this person.
    Being blunt and clear is fine, being un-personable causes problems. You cannot treat everyone the same, I wish you could but your staff are individuals, some need more finesse when talking to, being a blunt NT can be intimidating.

    And I can take "no" for an answer. (As in, if I ask you to do something, and you don't have the time to do it, then tell me.) But my staff is afraid to tell me no for some reason. I don't understand why when I ask a question, they don't want to give me an honest response.

    Instead, they cry to *my* boss, who just undermined my authority by taking that department's side.
    You have a real problem there, I'm sure the situation would frustrate you no end, it would me, that should be motivation enough to change, you cannot expect others to.

    But it pisses me off that he removed it from me because of whining, rather than because it was a logical decision.
    Sounds like you as an NT have expectations that your staff and boss will think and act the same way. Some people make decisions based on feeling, some based on logic, you should learn the skills to appeal to both.

    How to repair it is where I'm at a loss. I can't just have a personality transplant and suddenly become cuddly.
    Please donít hug them, that will only scare them more! You need to work on developing trust as that appears to be one of the problems, they need to learn that coming to you with a problem will result in understanding and a solution. Little things can count and increase moral, just try turning your NT down for a bit and seeing things from your staffs perspective.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Algora J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    At every job that I've ever had (which has always been or lead to managerial/supervisory positions), my staff complains that I'm cold. I've actually been told that I'm efficient and goal-oriented to a fault.

    If anything, more like Tuvok's precision and indifference to feelings with Seven of Nine's drive for perfection.

    How on earth can anyone consider it difficult to report to someone who is blunt and clear in expectations? I mean, it's not like you ever wonder where you stand with this person.

    I'm even willing to help you learn to meet my expectations if you don't meet them now. You can't possibly meet them if you don't have the tools to do it.

    So, can someone explain to me where the complication is? Because I really don't get it.
    Usually when people say "cold" they mean rude or lacking in social graces.

    When I first started projects, people found me too "matter-of-fact" getting straight to business. Usually people appreciate it a lot more if you're interested in them as a person and an individual making a contribution instead of one of the many minions who work there.

    I always make an effort to get to know everyone on staff and to remember personal details about them so that when I see them again, I have something to chitchat with them about, even for a few seconds. A little conversation goes a long way, I've found.

    Perhaps you should make an effort to get to know your staff and to treat them like people, not lego pieces.

    Just a thought

  10. #20
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    At every job that I've ever had (which has always been or lead to managerial/supervisory positions), my staff complains that I'm cold. I've actually been told that I'm efficient and goal-oriented to a fault.

    If anything, more like Tuvok's precision and indifference to feelings with Seven of Nine's drive for perfection.

    How on earth can anyone consider it difficult to report to someone who is blunt and clear in expectations? I mean, it's not like you ever wonder where you stand with this person.

    I'm even willing to help you learn to meet my expectations if you don't meet them now. You can't possibly meet them if you don't have the tools to do it.

    So, can someone explain to me where the complication is? Because I really don't get it.
    they are inefficient and insecure
    nevermind such idiots
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