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  1. #21
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    Last semester two of my female roommates started dating each other. The INTJ had known she was bi since early high school and while she had never actually come out to us, we all knew. INFP roommate on the other hand was 21 years old and had no clue she had the potential to be attracted to women. In fact, she didn't even realize she had feelings for INTJ roommate until we all basically told her. Once they started dating she and I were talking and I asked her if she had even been attracted to women before to which she responded "No, but, I figured INTJ roommate and I where really good friends so why not? I've never really been attracted to guys either." I don't understand how that works, or how you can just not know you are attracted to someone. But, obviously I can only speak from my experience, which is quite limited.
    Exactly. It's all about self-awareness.

    lol @ us NFPs having to be told by EFJs how we're feeling. it's like we hear our emotions talking, and you guys do the translating.
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  2. #22
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    A to Q to B for me


    I always thought the concept of coming out was so strange. Like if straight people don't have to come out then why do I? Why can't people just see by seeing who I date? Unfortunately the whole simply presenting who I started dating thing ended up very, very badly. Coming out is a ridiculous thing to appease an even more ridiculous society, it seems. The sooner we can rid the need of this appeasement the better.

  3. #23
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Coming out is a ridiculous thing to appease an even more ridiculous society, it seems. The sooner we can rid the need of this appeasement the better.
    I could not disagree more.

    Most in the world do not like operating under assumptions, and it more often than not it leads to unneeded confusion. People like labels, and they are useful. It makes communication more efficient and understandable. For better or worse that is how society works and I don't see it changing any time soon.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  4. #24
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I could not disagree more.

    Most in the world do not like operating under assumptions, and it more often than not it leads to unneeded confusion. People like labels, and they are useful. It makes communication more efficient and understandable. For better or worse that is how society works and I don't see it changing any time soon.
    Most in the world seem to like very much operating under the assumption that everyone is straight until they come out. This is the current machination of society and just because it's not changing anytime soon doesn't mean that I can't be part of the eventual change. A brave new world where I'm not socially obligated to make some grandiose speech on something as basic as having brown eyes.
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  5. #25
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Most in the world seem to like very much operating under the assumption that everyone is straight until they come out. This is the current machination of society and just because it's not changing anytime soon doesn't mean that I can't be part of the eventual change. A brave new world where I'm not socially obligated to make some grandiose speech on something as basic as having brown eyes.
    I don't think there's anything wrong with assuming individuals are straight until they say otherwise. It's the significant majority by a very large margin. For that reasons it's quite reasonable to assume so. I've had plenty of people in my life assume I am straight for a long while because I never made a point to tell them I'm gay. It doesn't bother me. At most, I am just surprised by it as I see myself as pretty obvious that I'm gay. You're more than welcome to go about it how you want, but I don't see the point when it isn't going to have any impact and it's just going to cause a headache for you as you've already stated.

    I don't get why people get all bent out of shape out of benign false assumptions anyway. If they get it wrong, correct them. If that's not enough, correct yourself to cover the bases and then problem solved.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  6. #26
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I don't think there's anything wrong with assuming individuals are straight until they say otherwise. It's the significant majority by a very large margin. For that reasons it's quite reasonable to assume so. I've had plenty of people in my life assume I am straight for a long while because I never made a point to tell them I'm gay. It doesn't bother me. At most, I am just surprised by it as I see myself as pretty obvious that I'm gay. You're more than welcome to go about it how you want, but I don't see the point when it isn't going to have any impact and it's just going to cause a headache for you as you've already stated.

    I don't get why people get all bent out of shape out of benign false assumptions anyway. If they get it wrong, correct them. If that's not enough, correct yourself to cover the bases and then problem solved.
    I don't have a problem with straight=status quo. It's the societal obligation of having to formally come out if you're not straight I have a problem with. I have a problem with the fact that when I confided into a same-sex relationship, that it was assumed that I'm still straight and being seduced into wicked ways, all because I never explicitly said I wasn't straight.

  7. #27
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    I don't have a problem with straight=status quo. It's the societal obligation of having to formally come out if you're not straight I have a problem with. I have a problem with the fact that when I confided into a same-sex relationship, that it was assumed that I'm still straight and being seduced into wicked ways, all because I never explicitly said I wasn't straight.
    Ok. That seems a little over the top of them to see it that way, and I can see why that is bothersome. Nevertheless, not explicitly stating what you are will confuse people and lead to social confusion. This recently happened in my circle of friends. A friend of mine is polyamorus, and married. He recently started spending a lot of time with another woman and was very physically affectionate. He never said he was poly to anyone. I more or less guessed it but wasn't 100% certain. Many others assumed he might be cheating but it was in plane sight so everyone was just confused but didn't want to approach it. As a result we all got quiet. I got fed up with it and confronted him about it and he more or less went about it the way you did: didn't feel the need, and didn't like the idea that he had to "say" something. Once I explained how wildly confused and slightly rumorous our friends had gotten though he basically said (paraphrasing) "goddamnit, why doesn't this ever work?!" referring to letting people just guess. The answer is simple: people want clear communication.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  8. #28
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Ok. That seems a little over the top of them to see it that way, and I can see why that is bothersome. Nevertheless, not explicitly stating what you are will confuse people and lead to social confusion. This recently happened in my circle of friends. A friend of mine is polyamorus, and married. He recently started spending a lot of time with another woman and was very physically affectionate. He never said he was poly to anyone. I more or less guessed it but wasn't 100% certain. Many others assumed he might be cheating but it was in plane sight so everyone was just confused but didn't want to approach it. As a result we all got quiet. I got fed up with it and confronted him about it and he more or less went about it the way you did: didn't feel the need, and didn't like the idea that he had to "say" something. Once I explained how wildly confused and slightly rumorous our friends had gotten though he basically said (paraphrasing) "goddamnit, why doesn't this ever work?!" referring to letting people just guess. The answer is simple: people want clear communication.
    I don't know that the parallel between this and the polyamorous situation holds up. Dating others in a closed marriage is a big no no. But where is the moral problem with same-sex dating while assumed to be straight? The whole poly thing gets easily confusing, I know. Where is the confusion in seeing two men kiss? Or two women? I think that speaks loudly and clearly for itself.

  9. #29
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    I don't know that the parallel between this and the polyamorous situation holds up. Dating others in a closed marriage is a big no no. But where is the moral problem with same-sex dating while assumed to be straight? The whole poly thing gets easily confusing, I know. Where is the confusion in seeing two men kiss? Or two women? Doesn't the intertwine of same-sexed arms speak for itself?
    I'm just going to stop here, we're not going to agree. My point is: having people implicitly assume backfires, and it shouldn't be a surprise.
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  10. #30
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I'm just going to stop here, we're not going to agree. My point is: having people implicitly assume backfires, and it shouldn't be a surprise.
    I'd like to at least know for sure what major point we're going to have the disagreement on, but I guess I'll have to be satisfied with my own guesses. Someday coming out will be as simple as "'This is my girlfriend -a girl," and some of my faith in humanity will be restored.

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