[MBTI General] N v. S

[Colors]

Speaking of lights, in response to Sunshine's comment on page 5, I think in words, but when I'm talking my thoughts get jumbled up a bit. That's why I'm more eloquent on paper than in speech.

I guess I don't know the pain of decorating sans lightbulbs, so truce?

I'm more concise and less jumbled on paper, but I feel more clear in talking. Cause you can reclarify and work off the reactions. (I throughly suck at speeches though.)

 

[Jeffster]

From my visitor comments:


Jeffster :

"I'm doin fantabulous! I may be stuck inside tomorrow, though. The weather is supposed to be very nasty. Hurricane is set to give us a good lashing, even 150 miles from shore."


substitute :

"haha before I read 'the weather is...' I was thinking something totally different for 'stuck inside tomorrow' hahaha... I thought you were gonna say your time machine is malfunctioning"



S vs. N. Right there. We're livin it out people!

 

[raindancing]

Disclaimer: This post may not be understandable, it is way too late here

I wouldn't say I find it hard to talk to the sensors I know as long as I am not worried about talking about something that I find particularly interesting.
I know quite a few sensors, and as far as I can tell they all enjoy talking to me and don't have any trouble with our conversations, but I really think that's because I don't try and bring abstract qualities to it. Whenever I do try testing out a little abstractness it invariably fails; they either completely misunderstand me, go silent, or start talking about something else.
It gets frustrating, and sometimes if I'm not careful I can feel a bit hurt that they don't seem to make an effort to talk about the things I find interesting when I make such an effort to respond and make their thoughts feel genuinely welcomed.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike our conversations... it's just that I don't find them stimulating. I wouldn't seek them out, but I'm good at carrying on a conversation with anyone about whatever they want to talk about; I guess sometimes this feels like it's taken advantage of. Although again, I'm sure it's not intentional. They're very nice people, but I think that generally the people they interact with are other sensors so they probably don't even realize that I want to talk about other things and that all the details of theirs and everyone else's lives are not things I find inherently interesting.

It's not like I am sitting there bored out of my mind, thinking when will she stop talking?! I can normally, in the moment, force myself to feel involved in and care for what they are saying...but it is so tiring and really really not stimulating.

For me, I want to connect at a different level, to find that conversation that makes my eyes light up and my mind race. I am not sure if these sensing people I know also want this and get it from the types of conversations that we have (or conversations they have with other sensors perhaps...) or if that type of connection isn't something they strive for.
I've pretty much given up trying to get that connection with the sensors that I know. Too many times of trying and being rebuffed; my sensitivity can only take so much!

 

[burkeus]

For me, I want to connect at a different level, to find that conversation that makes my eyes light up and my mind race.

 

[FDG]

I generally can talk with sensor quite well. I don't have a problem with small talk, actually I like to talk about bullshit more than talking about serious topics. The only times I've had a problem is when I switch from jokes and saying idiotic things to extremely NT language because I want to explain something I care about/because I feel the need to do so/because I am speaking with a professor about a complex topic. In that case they seem to think that I'm faking it/pretending.

 

[Maabus1999]

Same here. I don't mind sensors as long as they don't try to have deep conversations with me.

If they are tolerant and patient, they are fine with me. Granted I have to practice simplifying my thoughts a lot, and working around folks that are S's slowly trains you that way. I never lose my N though and constantly get made fun of at times, but I don't mind

 

[Bougal]

I have lived my whole life in this kind of situation. My Mother is a very strong S, and when I am talking to her about something conceptual, no matter the level of importance, she will have sudden, unrelated outburst about a bad driver, something she needs to clean or something she needs to add to a shopping list. It is like we are on to different wavelengths. I think I would go insane if my whole family was comprised of Ss, but luckily, I have an INTJ brother and father.

Unless there are activities involved, Ss and Ns don't really mesh too well. Talking to a strong S is like talking to a brick wall. If it interests me, like if we are talking about a concept, then they never contribute to the conversation.

 

[darkmoon]

The beating around the bush habit you describe Colors is actually for a reason... I just can't get my head into articulating it at the moment but I'll have another go later lol

It's because Ns see many sides of a topic all at the same time!

Interesting! I wonder if Ns have a tendency to reason from general to specific and Ss from specific to general (or vice versa)?

I agree with that!

Seriously....worker ants are as essential as the masterminds.

I know quite a few sensors, and as far as I can tell they all enjoy talking to me and don't have any trouble with our conversations, but I really think that's because I don't try and bring abstract qualities to it. Whenever I do try testing out a little abstractness it invariably fails; they either completely misunderstand me, go silent, or start talking about something else.

It gets frustrating, and sometimes if I'm not careful I can feel a bit hurt that they don't seem to make an effort to talk about the things I find interesting when I make such an effort to respond and make their thoughts feel genuinely welcomed.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike our conversations... it's just that I don't find them stimulating. I wouldn't seek them out, but I'm good at carrying on a conversation with anyone about whatever they want to talk about; I guess sometimes this feels like it's taken advantage of. Although again, I'm sure it's not intentional. They're very nice people, but I think that generally the people they interact with are other sensors so they probably don't even realize that I want to talk about other things and that all the details of theirs and everyone else's lives are not things I find inherently interesting.

It's not like I am sitting there bored out of my mind, thinking when will she stop talking?! I can normally, in the moment, force myself to feel involved in and care for what they are saying...but it is so tiring and really really not stimulating.

For me, I want to connect at a different level, to find that conversation that makes my eyes light up and my mind race. I am not sure if these sensing people I know also want this and get it from the types of conversations that we have (or conversations they have with other sensors perhaps...) or if that type of connection isn't something they strive for.
I've pretty much given up trying to get that connection with the sensors that I know. Too many times of trying and being rebuffed; my sensitivity can only take so much!

I could have written that. I have lots of sensor friends but at times I have exactly the same problem.

 

[BlackOp]

I

Bullets dont work on ghosts....... I was fucking around with an "s". I am assuming you were shooting a me? or were you shooting a "s"? I'm drunk....

 

[Venom]

ISTPs are kind of the exception to the rule.

the combo of tertiary Ni + the fact that Ti can be quite "deep"

 

[Unique]

I have lived my whole life in this kind of situation. My Mother is a very strong S, and when I am talking to her about something conceptual, no matter the level of importance, she will have sudden, unrelated outburst about a bad driver, something she needs to clean or something she needs to add to a shopping list. It is like we are on to different wavelengths. I think I would go insane if my whole family was comprised of Ss, but luckily, I have an INTJ brother and father.

Unless there are activities involved, Ss and Ns don't really mesh too well. Talking to a strong S is like talking to a brick wall. If it interests me, like if we are talking about a concept, then they never contribute to the conversation.

Not every S is like your Mother. Changing the topic to something that needs to be done eg. the cleaning or bad driver story just sounds rude to me.

If an N is talking to me about something "conceptual" I'm focused on them and pay attention to what they are saying after all that is truly what is in the "now".

What I input back with is generally helping them put their thoughts into practice. S and N work very well together.

 

[animenagai]

i think the S vs N clash is really a problem only if the S and N are both very strong. i have a tonne of S friends who i feel like i can talk to (though not usually about theory or abstract stuff). when i do throw out something quite N, most of them is at least willing to entertain the idea a little bit. there are lot of strong S's in the world though that i have trouble communicating with.

 

[Venom]

i know i overstate this alot, but sharing functions can really smooth this all out.

especially when you share N or S like ENXJ and ISXP do with tertiary Se or Ni.
Not as pronounced smoothing over as ISXP & ENXJ, but for instance, one of my good friends is ESTJ. The Te communication makes the N vs S clash less of a problem.

One of my best "team" relations is an IXTP friend of mine (probably ISTP). We play support/rescue to each other, multiple times a day. One of us misses or messes up where the other saves the day (Ti Se vs Te Ni... oppositional dominants)

 

[darkmoon]

i know i overstate this a lot, but sharing functions can really smooth this all out.....

for instance, one of my good friends is ESTJ. The Te communication makes the N vs S clash less of a problem.

I absolutely agree with this since one of my best friends is also ESTJ and I find the Te side of both of us is our connecting point. I also have a best friend who is ENTJ and it is very similar in that we connect via Te but also have a great shared imagination (Ni) also. But I've found also the experience of how my ENTJ friend has Fi 4th down the hierachy quite useful in understanding my ESTJ friend too.

 

[Darjur]

It's pretty much impossible for me to talk to strong S's. I either bore or annoy them or they bore or annoy me.

I also have absolutely no capability of using "small talk", not paying attention to any sport or fps game whatsoever helps that communicational barrier.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

if you have reasonable conversational skills, you should be able to make acquaintances with Ss, but the only ones I've ever been good friends with shared a particular interest - like hunting, golf, or baseball

when I was in college, there were a few S chicks who I was friends with, but mostly because we were in the same clique, they weren't deep connections, S guys have been easier to become friends with, mostly because of common sports interests

When I'm around Ss, I turn on the Dale Carnegie skills - asking questions, discussing common friends and interests, and sharing funny stories, but after doing that for too long, I can't wait to call up an N and start debating politics

also, Ss with few outside interests wear on me quickly, my ENFJ girlfriend senior year in college had an ESFJ roommate who could go on forever about shopping lists, laundry, and her cats, but we used to shut her up by starting debates about impressionist painting styles

 

[King sns]

I get along equally well with N's and S's I think.

But if i'm around a big group of people who start talking about N-like things,(politics or constellations or modern physics or something.) I can only stay afloat for so long before I zone out a bit. I try to keep up and stay in the conversation but I usually end up getting bored and sleepy and focusing on something (a fire, a plant.) or any variety of things that a simple S can think about for a while, until someone breaks my daze. "hey !! you're staring of into space!"

and then I try to jump back in again.

This happens to me a lot actually.

 

[King sns]

I have lived my whole life in this kind of situation. My Mother is a very strong S, and when I am talking to her about something conceptual, no matter the level of importance, she will have sudden, unrelated outburst about a bad driver, something she needs to clean or something she needs to add to a shopping list. It is like we are on to different wavelengths. I think I would go insane if my whole family was comprised of Ss, but luckily, I have an INTJ brother and father.

Unless there are activities involved, Ss and Ns don't really mesh too well. Talking to a strong S is like talking to a brick wall. If it interests me, like if we are talking about a concept, then they never contribute to the conversation.

Grr.. my mom does this a lot!! she's an esfj. I was telling her about something very exciting in my life yesterday and she goes. "thats nice. So and so came over yesterday after I did the laundry."

Not every S is like your Mother. Changing the topic to something that needs to be done eg. the cleaning or bad driver story just sounds rude to me.

If an N is talking to me about something "conceptual" I'm focused on them and pay attention to what they are saying after all that is truly what is in the "now".

What I input back with is generally helping them put their thoughts into practice. S and N work very well together.

and I would agree with this. Not all S's are going to change the topic when you're talking!

 

[Anja]

I'm trying to put this into the context of my relationships with Esses whom are close to me.

I do know that my MIL and her other Sensor friends seemed incapable of discussing ideas with me. So the conversation was continuously being pulled back to the subjects of people, places and things.

Not deliberately rude. But frustrating nonetheless.

And any converation I have with my ISTJ will invariably get around to what needs to be done next or what was just done.

My ninety-something MIL (ISTJ?) has kept a daily journal for about seventy years. I thought "What a treasure trove of her inner thoughts will be preserved for her grandchildren!"

Once I had access to the stacks and stacks of notebooks and glanced through a random few. I was disappointed to see the mundane and matter-of-fact reporting of daily tasks. Every page was identical beginning with a brief weather report and going on to list the day's work. Who's birthday it was. Whom she received letters from.

Decades of this with absolutely no personal reflection!

 

[sarah]

Okay, listen up all you people who believe that preferring Sensing means you do nothing BUT sense: If that were true, then the reverse would also be true. Everyone who prefers Intuition would be completely incapable of using their senses. That would mean if Ns try to move, their muscles wouldn't respond and they'd be like blind bats blundering around, bashing into everything. That would also mean that Ns are certainly not capable of playing sports, or reading (because that uses your eyesight), cooking, driving, walking, etc.. and they absolutely can't create art or play music, because that requires sensing, which You As An N Person Do Not Possess. In fact, the only thing Ns are capable of doing is sitting around daydreaming and philosophizing -- about purely abstract stuff, naturally. You wouldn't even be able to philosophize about art or music, because you wouldn't have the ability to sense and savor the art and music in the first place.

If that sounds stupid to you, then know that this is how utterly stupid it sounds to my mind to hear that I'm supposedly incapable of having abstract conversations.

Which is why I think it's far more reasonable to acknowledge that people enjoy both, and that very few people are extreme N or S, but that some people who prefer Sensing prefer not to talk about abstractions when there is stuff worth admiring and doing in the physical world around them, and the abstractions would only distract rather than intensify the experience.

I find it extremely annoying when I'm trying to concentrate on what I'm doing with my hands and someone's trying to have a conversation with me. I can't do both at once. Sure, I can have abstract "deep" conversations, but not when there's a lot worth noticing in the real world around me. Does that make sense?