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Thread: N v. S

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronte View Post
    well if you prefer to be rude then i suppose you dont mind offending people by stereotyping them.

    going through life being rude and offensive though will limit your life

    but its your life so good luck to you.
    speaking of sterotypes, I have an INFP friend who is so politically correct it's sickening, and likes to point fingers at others who dare to express a controversial viewpoint, rather than debating the content of what they've said, interesting that you share his letters

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronte View Post
    They generally serve to to enhance our own self-identity and are harmful in that they are the foundation for prejudice and discrimination.
    what sorts of data do you have that supports your assertions?

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    I can't understand how anyone could dislike ENFJs or have issues with them because they are so good at diplomacy and genuine empathy. But maybe it's just that I find them irresistable.

    I consider myself lucky to be married to one.
    So stereotyping is good in this case?

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    So stereotypings good in this case?
    ISFPs never stereotype.

  5. #165
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    Sure, I understand why it happens. It seems obvious that the people who say that aren't very knowledgable about temperament, or not very good at accurately determining the type of others around them. If someone chooses to believe that they can't talk with people who prefer Sensing because all such people are supposed to be shallow, stupid, vapid, etc., then isn't it inevitable that they will believe that everyone they meet who isn't stupid/shallow/vapid must prefer Intuition? It's self-fulfilling belief, because there's no way anybody can prove otherwise.
    Yes, very insightful. I think you're probably right.


    That sounds exactly right, from my point of view. Thank you for articulating it so well.

    Which is why I'm thinking being here is probably just a huge waste of my time. What I'm getting by way of feedback (not from you, Athenian -- just in general) is that negative stereotypes are fun, and it's a blast to spread them around and wallow in them. Anyone who doesn't agree with them is not supposed to ruin it for the people having fun. If anyone calls the stereotypes ridiculous, then they must deal with being blasted for being "oversensitive" or "politically correct", even though their comments were simply statements of disagreement rather than an attempt to pretend that reality is other than it is. This is something I can definitely live without, so I doubt I'll be spending much time here this new year. Anyone whom I've enjoyed talking with, feel free to PM me if you want to chat about something, but I'm pretty much done with the discussion board.
    I'm sorry you feel that way. I understand why you feel frustrated with people not wanting to take these things seriously and wanting to have fun at other people's expense instead... I've felt the same way before, exactly the same way. The thing is, I don't think you leaving will solve anything. There's still always the individuals who will accept and listen to what you say, and the friends you've made here who'd like you to stay, not because it's productive, but because they're... well, your friends. It's not like every discussion has to be about MBTI.

    I think you're kind of stressed out right now, and you probably feel like you want to throw out everything that isn't productive or meaningful, stand up and look down on all those ignorant, hurtful people who are short-sighted, self-indulgent and unwilling to listen to unpleasant truths, and then leave in disgust. But I think that you should really wait until you're feeling a bit less angry and focused, and more like an SFP than an NTJ, before you make this decision.

  6. #166
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    Some Ns have no concept of making small talk and will immediately launch into some deep, serious subject at the worst time. Reminds me of the time a N friend brought up 'life after death' on a chairlift at Park City!
    What are you TALKING about! Riding on a chair lift might conjure thoughts of dying if you fell off of it or if it broke! What better time to discuss life after death... The initial feeling that sparked the conversation was grounded in reality. I think that's a very good link from S to N...

    Embrace the possibilities.

  7. #167
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I work in an environment that is 95% S type - just find me a wall to bash my head against.

    Trying to keep them focused on overall purpose instead of the bits and peices is a total nightmare, it drives me absolutely insane. That said I also know I drive them crackers too - it's such hard work.

    I know that on some levels its really good for me, but so frustrating when you are trying to get things done.

    Lis

  8. #168
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post

    Which is why I'm thinking being here is probably just a huge waste of my time. What I'm getting by way of feedback (not from you, Athenian -- just in general) is that negative stereotypes are fun, and it's a blast to spread them around and wallow in them. Anyone who doesn't agree with them is not supposed to ruin it for the people having fun. If anyone calls the stereotypes ridiculous, then they must deal with being blasted for being "oversensitive" or "politically correct", even though their comments were simply statements of disagreement rather than an attempt to pretend that reality is other than it is. This is something I can definitely live without, so I doubt I'll be spending much time here this new year. Anyone whom I've enjoyed talking with, feel free to PM me if you want to chat about something, but I'm pretty much done with the discussion board.
    You've also gotten quite a bit of positive feedback also. Sorry if I didn't give you enough for the posts where you were on a roll. I'm sorry if you stop reading the site or posting because I find most of your contributions to be awesome. I was even going to ask you to help me with my SP temperament topic. I think trying to get anyone who has false stereotypes to change their views all at once is pretty much impossible. But there's no way to measure how many people who don't speak up have come to a better understanding based on the things that you and me and other Sensing types have posted. I hope you won't give up on that, even at the same time that I hope you'll lighten up about it. Hopefully that made sense, and you can always chat with me anytime, just so you know.
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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I work in an environment that is 95% S type - just find me a wall to bash my head against.
    What survival tactics have you developed? How do you let your creative ideas get out?

  10. #170
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    Stereotyping is required for efficiency. Always basing opinions on individuals is inefficient and illogical.
    It'd be quite logical, actually, just not practical. It is inefficient, yet it is most efficient to have no information on which to base your conclusion - obviously not the ideal situation. The effort and effect are all done at the margin, so the early additions add significant value, the later ones less so.

    An example of a much poorer stereotype would be the S - 66% of the population, even along a single axis of measurement, is so broad that it loses significant meaning. On the other hand, 33% of Ns is well defined, not surprisingly, because they don't even pass through average scores (guesstimate about 0.5 std dev above norm?), while Ss do... So Ns gain a smaller (25-33%) division and a narrow definition (scoring above 66-75% of the population on this axis)... and likewise, Ss gain no practical division (66-75% of the population) and no practical definition (constituting only the removal of part of the population that would be at the outer edges of this trait - have all normals and stronger traits in a large population sample).

    This is to illustrate that the weaker your stereotype (ie: the more efficient it is), the less accurate it is. As always, it's the same as type I and type II errors. You must trade off - and we can choose to do it for efficiency, or we can do it for our own biases and/or hide our lazy thinking.

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