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  1. #431
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
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    Ewww, gross, my last response was lame... Here it is broken down.


    - Assumptions based on small pieces of information and no attempt to understand do not make sense to me (EVERYTHING MUST BE QUESTIONED!!ONE!!!11!!)
    - I'm intense when I share things with people, and they always seem to think I'm being insincere. It sucks, and toning it down has just as negative of an effect. If you have a strategy for this, I'm all ears.
    - If I'm not sharing my feelings with you, either work to build the kind of intimacy I need to share or move on without using emotional blackmail on me. It's a bad strategy, because neither of us get what we want.


    ENTP relation to this? I seek feedback from people on maybe 20% of my thoughts. I do it to refine an idea, learn more about them, entertain my brain with a new perspective or discover an entirely new idea to work on. It truly is a draft or proposal, but I'm often detached from the ideas emotionally other than being excited about them. Could it be that people see our emotions being expressed in the same way as these ideas since they are used to our "out-there-ness"?

    I make many mistakes interacting with people. With these situations, there never seems to be a positive opportunity for growth. Trust is complicated, and I am not a big fan of talking about my feelings. It's all an enigma wrapped in a mystery shrouded by illusion.
    Last edited by Gamine; 05-01-2009 at 12:10 AM. Reason: took the whining out
    "Beware Those Who Are ALWAYS READING BOOKS" - Bukowski

  2. #432
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    a thought occurred to me earlier: sometimes a person needs me to say that I love them for them to be able to trust me. Here's the irony: from the moment I say it, it gets harder for me to trust them.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #433
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Actually, this brings up something that I've been wondering about in ENTPs as well. You guys are indeed sensitive to having your feelings or inner thoughts intuited, and often feel like they've been misunderstood. Which, you know, I'm sure is true.

    But, ENTPs, I've noticed, do the same, just via a different way. At least, if they're somehow compelled to. You seem to use Ne and Ti, to intuit a range of possibilities of why someone does something, or says something, and conclude their motivations for said action that way. And ime, it's often 50/50 hit chance. 50 percent of the time, you guys are spot on, and the other time..you've taken those observations which might be valid and completely misinterpreted them.

    Are you unaware of the fact that you do this?
    Completely aware. But the motivation is completely different, I think. In my case, I'm looking for the pattern in someone's behavior and emotions, taking into account all past behaviors and then predicting someone's tendencies based on the pattern. Personally, I think I am much better than average at this. Sooooo, I'm not reading people as much as patterns. My NF sister gets so engaged in reading people she does not see the patterns. I get so engaged in the patterns, I do not read people.
    Quote Originally Posted by pippi View Post
    Fiver is correct, it is freeing to not have to impress someone, to be accepted for who you really are.

  4. #434
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiver View Post
    I'm not reading people as much as patterns. My NF sister gets so engaged in reading people she does not see the patterns. I get so engaged in the patterns, I do not read people.
    Word.

    To elucidate my earlier post, in light of the big one I did before, the reason I find it harder to trust someone the more they force me to express my feelings to them, is because a) it makes me feel like their acceptance is conditional and b) I'll begin to doubt whether their behaviour towards me is spontaneous, authentic, genuine... and start to look for evidence of it being contrived in reaction to my feelings: "would you love me if I didn't love you?"

    IOW, is it me you want, or just someone (anyone) who loves you?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  5. #435
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    a thought occurred to me earlier: sometimes a person needs me to say that I love them for them to be able to trust me. Here's the irony: from the moment I say it, it gets harder for me to trust them.
    +1

  6. #436
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Almost like saying "i love you" is some kinda redundant insecure reassurance when the love is already a given and should go without saying. Leading to *why do i need to go through this reassuring ritual? is it because the other uses it to mask the little things in order to keep our relations at least to the level of status quo? then maybe the other has something to hide and needs reassurance till they can work it out through other kinds of manipulation?* And on and on and on
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  7. #437
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Almost like saying "i love you" is some kinda redundant insecure reassurance when the love is already a given and should go without saying. Leading to *why do i need to go through this reassuring ritual? is it because the other uses it to mask the little things in order to keep our relations at least to the level of status quo? then maybe the other has something to hide and needs reassurance till they can work it out through other kinds of manipulation?* And on and on and on
    ...and if they really did understand me enough to be able to say they loved me, they would already trust me.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #438
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    ...and if they really did understand me enough to be able to say they loved me, they would already trust me.
    exactly. Allmost as if such important expressions are being trivialized to create some kind of blahzay hormony well before really knowing someone just to clearify their own confidence.

    That being obviously one of many conclusions that i just came up with to compute the rational. And they wonder.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  9. #439
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    and it's kind of an insult too, to say that unless I were in love with them or something, then I'd probably be capable of betraying them or otherwise not trustworthy. Like a personal infatuation with an individual person is what it'd take for me to keep my word, cos just a general sense of honor isn't enough? Makes me really wonder you know, the more I think about it, like I say, the less I end up feeling like THEY can be trusted, cos if trustworthiness depends so much for them on that sorta personal, individual love, and I'm now not sure whether their love IS genuine and even if it is, I'm pretty sure it hinges on conditions that I as a fallible human might occasionally fail to fulfill, as described above, then why should I trust them any more?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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