[ENTP] ENTP: To hug or hit?

[Domino]

^How to flirt^

My sister told me late last night that when she'd spoken to him, he told her that I'm one of two girls who ever made him want to be a better man, to expand. He said he felt like I understood him. Of course, he didn't say this TO ME. I found out well after the fact. It struck me so powerfully that I just sat there saying nothing. When I find out that I'm in sync with someone, that I'm coming across, that they KNOW that I understand, it means everything to me. The reflection I'm seeing is accurate - these sorts of very personal deep connections with those I care about. It's so hard to describe. I frequently feel like I'm speaking into a void, so hearing return echoes and messages is a special thing for me. I get weirdly quiet and calm.

 

[jenocyde]

When I find out that I'm in sync with someone, that I'm coming across, that they KNOW that I understand, it means everything to me. The reflection I'm seeing is accurate - these sorts of very personal deep connections with those I care about. It's so hard to describe.

I know what you mean. This feeling is so rare and so beautiful.

Your post made me laugh so hard because it brought back a memory of a guy I used to date. He always wondered why his friends knew more about my feelings for him than he did. The answer is simply because they asked me. It never even occurs to me to discuss my feelings about anything or anyone.

 

[substitute]

Actually Amargith, I reckon the main difference is that ENTP's work things out aloud by bouncing them off the listener, whilst Ni dom people work it out internally and then sorta "proclaim" to the listener their verdict. I don't mean that sarcastically or scathingly or anything, but that's the difference I see that might give an impression that it's the "same thing"...

I mean if I connect the dots using Ti and Ne to figure out what's going on inside another person, what I say is pretty much my first draft, and I'm looking for feedback to refine it, I'm not certain at all that I'm right, it's more a theory. But INxJ's I do tend to find, you know... they figure they've worked it all out internally, so that's probably why it grates on me more when they give their theories as to my emotional motivations - there's an air about them that they think they've got me pegged, there's a kind of certainty about what they say in their voices that I really don't think I could convincingly carry into almost anything I say at all beyond "the sky is blue" lol

I frequently feel like I'm speaking into a void, so hearing return echoes and messages is a special thing for me. I get weirdly quiet and calm.

This though, is solid gold. That's exactly what I look for, someone who talks back. But it so often gets mistaken for me just wanting to talk, compulsively, liking the sound of my own voice and all that. Hell no, I'm just searching for some point of connection that will make them talk back.

 

[Domino]

I know what you mean. This feeling is so rare and so beautiful.

Isn't it just? He and I have been friends, even against the odds, for a long time. He plays tough, whatever it takes for him to get through a bad spell, but he's laid himself open to me, and I take that very seriously. The thing with ENTPs (and ENFPs too) is that they're generally so upbeat, busy and optimistic (not stupidly so) that when one goes down for the count, it causes me all sorts of distress to look at it. I feel this driving need to stand over my sister and spit venom on the world.

Your post made me laugh so hard because it brought back a memory of a guy I used to date. He always wondered why his friends knew more about my feelings for him than he did. The answer is simply because they asked me. It never even occurs to me to discuss my feelings about anything or anyone.

Well, it seems to me, if an ENTP has something to say about how he feels about ME, they clam up. Joking, flirting, picking me up, driving me nuts, taking my food, even debating is okay, but apparently "I feel this way about you" is like ripping their souls out through their noses. But that's all right... I do it too. In my own way.

 

[Domino]

Actually Amargith, I reckon the main difference is that ENTP's work things out aloud by bouncing them off the listener, whilst Ni dom people work it out internally and then sorta "proclaim" to the listener their verdict.

Well said, Sub. That's a good summary of Ni vs Ne.

The ENTPs of my acquaintance all do the "thinking aloud" thing. I just sit and listen until they 1. ask me for my opinion, or 2. propose something that sounds at least 90% fatal and I *must* insist that they not do it. lol

That's exactly what I look for, someone who talks back. But it so often gets mistaken for me just wanting to talk, compulsively, liking the sound of my own voice and all that. Hell no, I'm just searching for some point of connection that will make them talk back.

It's like sonar. Mapping the surface.

Do ENTPs echo-locate?

 

[substitute]

Well, it seems to me, if an ENTP has something to say about how he feels about ME, they clam up. Joking, flirting, even debating is okay, but apparently "I feel this way about you" is like ripping their souls out through their noses. But that's all right... I do it too. In my own way.

That's completely true too for me. It takes SO MUCH for me to screw up the balls to even just refer to somebody as my "best bud" in their presence. I can say "I think you're intelligent" or "I think you're good looking" or whatever, no problem. But to say "I feel really good when I'm with you and I like it when we do stuff together"... just feels kinda... ghey...

I guess when it comes to saying it to women, I worry that either a) they'll think I LIKE them in THAT way, when I don't, then it'll get all awkward or b) they'll think I LIKE them when I DO, and it'll get all awkward or c) they'll think I'm being insincere, d) they'll make a big deal out of it, e) I just sound like a total fag. Regarding d - if I manage to do it, then ffs please don't start going on about how special it is and how grateful you are that I shared that with you etc etc etc, just say "thanks" and move on! Three seconds is about the maximum time my uh, heart (haha see even just saying the word makes me laugh, feels so faggy!) can stand being in the spotlight before it BURRRNSSS MEEEEE!

 

[Domino]

That's completely true too for me. It takes SO MUCH for me to screw up the balls to even just refer to somebody as my "best bud" in their presence. I can say "I think you're intelligent" or "I think you're good looking" or whatever, no problem. But to say "I feel really good when I'm with you and I like it when we do stuff together"... just feels kinda... ghey...

I guess when it comes to saying it to women, I worry that either a) they'll think I LIKE them in THAT way, when I don't, then it'll get all awkward or b) they'll think I LIKE them when I DO, and it'll get all awkward or c) they'll think I'm being insincere, d) they'll make a big deal out of it, e) I just sound like a total fag. Regarding d - if I manage to do it, then ffs please don't start going on about how special it is and how grateful you are that I shared that with you etc etc etc, just say "thanks" and move on! Three seconds is about the maximum time my uh, heart (haha see even just saying the word makes me laugh, feels so faggy!) can stand being in the spotlight before it BURRRNSSS MEEEEE!

ROFL!!

 

[violaine]

Heh, my ENTP b/f and I never stop talking, so it seems. Thankfully, we don't seem to have any communication blocks. But we are both conscious of each others' styles. I definitely do the internal processing then pronouncement thing. Though I try and temper it. He regularly reminds me when he is just talking out loud to formulate a theory when I start to take something too seriously and launch into *earnest* mode.

It's possibly the best communication I have experienced with someone else. We are both very opinionated but we don't fight much. We often verbally spar for fun. We have a safe word for when one of us thinks it's getting out of hand.

 

[Amargith]

Actually Amargith, I reckon the main difference is that ENTP's work things out aloud by bouncing them off the listener, whilst Ni dom people work it out internally and then sorta "proclaim" to the listener their verdict. I don't mean that sarcastically or scathingly or anything, but that's the difference I see that might give an impression that it's the "same thing"...

I mean if I connect the dots using Ti and Ne to figure out what's going on inside another person, what I say is pretty much my first draft, and I'm looking for feedback to refine it, I'm not certain at all that I'm right, it's more a theory. But INxJ's I do tend to find, you know... they figure they've worked it all out internally, so that's probably why it grates on me more when they give their theories as to my emotional motivations - there's an air about them that they think they've got me pegged, there's a kind of certainty about what they say in their voices that I really don't think I could convincingly carry into almost anything I say at all beyond "the sky is blue" lol



This though, is solid gold. That's exactly what I look for, someone who talks back. But it so often gets mistaken for me just wanting to talk, compulsively, liking the sound of my own voice and all that. Hell no, I'm just searching for some point of connection that will make them talk back.

Ok so, it stands to reason then that ENFPs, your F counterparts and Ne-partners in crime are more up your alley?

That's completely true too for me. It takes SO MUCH for me to screw up the balls to even just refer to somebody as my "best bud" in their presence. I can say "I think you're intelligent" or "I think you're good looking" or whatever, no problem. But to say "I feel really good when I'm with you and I like it when we do stuff together"... just feels kinda... ghey...

I guess when it comes to saying it to women, I worry that either a) they'll think I LIKE them in THAT way, when I don't, then it'll get all awkward or b) they'll think I LIKE them when I DO, and it'll get all awkward or c) they'll think I'm being insincere, d) they'll make a big deal out of it, e) I just sound like a total fag. Regarding d - if I manage to do it, then ffs please don't start going on about how special it is and how grateful you are that I shared that with you etc etc etc, just say "thanks" and move on! Three seconds is about the maximum time my uh, heart (haha see even just saying the word makes me laugh, feels so faggy!) can stand being in the spotlight before it BURRRNSSS MEEEEE!

See that's interesting...why is that? For me, that's a very special moment. Be it me or be it the other person who fesses up...that's awesome. It's scary to do it, true, but once you see the other appreciates it, it's an amazing feeling, imo.

 

[substitute]

Ok so, it stands to reason then that ENFPs, your F counterparts and Ne-partners in crime are more up your alley?

Yeah totally, duh!

See that's interesting...why is that? For me, that's a very special moment. Be it me or be it the other person who fesses up...that's awesome. It's scary to do it, true, but once you see the other appreciates it, it's an amazing feeling, imo.

Ugh no, no no no no no! I mean uh yeah. Haha, no I mean yeah ... no... just shut up, k? It's surely no revelation that a lot of men REALLY don't like talking about their feelings!!

 

[Amargith]

Actually, ime, of the NTs, entps are the hardest to get talking about it, yes. Sure, INTs might take longer to trust you...but they do get there, if you have a good bond. Most don't dance around the subject as ENTPs do if they trust you. Hence my curiosity

 

[digesthisickness]

Yeah totally, duh!

this must be one of those 'personal taste' things.

Ugh no, no no no no no! I mean uh yeah. Haha, no I mean yeah ... no... just shut up, k? It's surely no revelation that a lot of men REALLY don't like talking about their feelings!!

this could very well be a NT thing, or even ENTP thing, as i do the same thing if it's a serious moment. i can easily throw an "awww, i just love you" out there, but if someone really wants to know my deepest, most vulnerable, feelings for them, and keep digging me about it, then by the time i get to saying it, i'm all pissed off and say it like, "i fucking love you, okay? i think of you all day long, you fucking bastard! GOD!"

 

[substitute]

yeah digest, she said "you", so I thought she meant me, cos otherwise I'd have had to be claiming to speak for all ENTP's an y'all know I don't do that. Least, not on purpose.

I totally do that though - "yes I fucking love you alright? you're like really important to me and if you left me or betrayed me it'd totally ruin my faith in humanity and fuck me up beyond redemption! SATISFIED?" then fuck off out the door to go to the pub

 

[digesthisickness]

yeah digest, she said "you", so I thought she meant me, cos otherwise I'd have had to be claiming to speak for all ENTP's an y'all know I don't do that. Least, not on purpose.

yeah, you're pretty cool about that.

I totally do that though - "yes I fucking love you alright? you're like really important to me and if you left me or betrayed me it'd totally ruin my faith in humanity and fuck me up beyond redemption! SATISFIED?" then fuck off out the door to go to the pub

exactly.

*sigh*

seriously, what's everyone else's problem?

 

[substitute]

I just had a flash of inspiration whilst I was frying sausages (mmm cholesterol!) about why it might be that I do that whole "expressing feelings is ghey" thing and can't say the word "heart" without lol-ing.

But then I forgot it before I got a chance to write it down, cos the phone rang and I had to answer it. Maybe if I go and cook some more sausages, I might remember...

ig:

 

[Oberon]

"feelings"?

What is this "feelings" you speak of?

 

[substitute]

Oh yeah! It was about non-intervetion, freewill, that sorta jive. How NT's totally value it and possibly the ENTP most of all. And how it might be seen as being like, one thing to tweak something to make it better after rational and objective thought - so you're not doing it for you, but for the thing itself. I mean of course passion is there to motivate you to want to make things better in the first place, but it's indirect and general passion... hmm, hard to describe this, but I'm trying...

But it's another thing totally to risk something happening or changing COMPLETELY as a result of your own subjective feelings. That's like, anathema.

So like, you tell someone how you feel - are they gonna feel obligated? You know they're completely not, not at all, but you know from experience that people do FEEL like they are. They've got to make a decision about how to react. Their next action is going to be ENORMOUSLY influenced by MY feelings as they perceive them. They have been put in a position, a state of being, entirely by my feelings.

Holy shit, that's terrible! That's blackmail! I can't do that in such a direct way! I mean I can show them through actions and non-verbal communication that I care about them, and dammit they should notice that and it should make it obvious how I feel. But because it's not shoving it in their faces, they can feel more free to respond honestly, authentically.

But if I shove it in their face like that, how will I ever know how much of what happened next sprang authentically from who they are, and how much was directly caused by my feelings? I can never know. And then, if I tell them that's how I'm feeling - well, it'll just start a neverending chain of actions and words they're choosing because of my feelings. This microworld here will start to spiral into revolving around my feelings!

NoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

And I guess, when I'm being pressured to come up with those emotional goods out in the open like that, all that subconscious shit is going on that's so full of fear and apprenehsion... but I can't show that either... what else is that going to produce in the conscious mind but laughter? So, like the devil that can't stand to be mocked, I laugh it away. And if you keep on at me, then the resultant frustration and acute exasperation with the situation is bound to turn into anger. And hence:

Fine! I love you, okay? Are you happy now that you've reduced me to a worm in my own sight, manipulating the world and altering people's behaviour according to my own subjective and selfish desires and needs? Now I've got to go and drown myself in alcohol so I can distance myself from all the shit you've just landed me in inside my head, and figure out a way to believe that however you behave to me next time I see you will be what you would've done anyway even if I hadn't told you. You've RUINED it! :steam:

Purity... purity of action, of integrity, of motive, of thought and action, of authenticity... it's like the ENTP grail. The other one, besides the one I mentioned before that I can't remember right now. I just CAN'T go around doing things 'for me'. Can't do it, nuh-uh. You can't make me, I shan't do it. Shan't, you hear me?

 

[Amargith]

Love the way you changed from serious poster to entertainer the moment the conversation turned to ENTPs and expressing feelings btw

 

[substitute]

Love the way you changed from serious poster to entertainer the moment the conversation turned to ENTPs and expressing feelings btw

Ah no, that's actually just a regression. You'll find in my back catalogue that I've been a king of fluff in my time

But anyway, see? There you go. I was honest and I just expressed my feelings, my deep innermost thoughts and there you are, thinking I'm just entertaining.

A pox on you all. :steam:

 

[substitute]

I mean, I can use Fe to tweak things in good conscience sometimes - I can do that, I can bring feeling into the service of my Ne/Ti schemes, which I wholeheatedly believe are for the benefit of all and not my own selfish gain. That's a whole different ballgame though to making it serve my own personal uh, person. Like I say: anathema.