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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I deserve all the hugs I can get.
    Aww..

    Besides using humor: Hit, hit, hug and repeat.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Wow. That is positively repellant. :cringes:

    :grumbles: ...compatible my arse...
    iwakar doesn't like me anymore...

    I think the age of the ENTP in question matters too... immature ones are probably still in Fe-tard stage, as such, the perceived competitiveness arising from Ne just seeking inputs and new grounds isn't even competitiveness to the ENTP - more that, "hey, he has went there, it means it is possible... can I go further?" The mentality isn't seeking to win over someone else in that respect - it is seeking new grounds that is the aim. In all possibility, the ENTP probably didn't even realise the other person was stepped on in their eagerness for the new grounds.

    Perhaps it is only when they grow older that the Ne is reined in by Ti and Fe more. They start to grow wiser, in picking what grounds to explore, and when to leave that shiny new thing alone too. Then the Ne is also used to sense how people are feeling, and they learn that people are fascinating in and of themselves. This slowdown in speed allows more depth, in personal reflection and growth inwards, not just outwards.

    I read another thread about how ExxPs are likely to cheat etc, but personally, I've never been able to form deep connections with more than one person at a time. Any hit is taken deeply if it is from someone whose hugs I value. Trinity, perhaps that is your key. Get your ENTP to slowdown the Ne somewhat, and engage the Ti and Fe. Means bring the person somewhere familiar/soothing/slower. Then speak what is bothering you without blame, so as to disarm them.

    If the ENTP cannot accept that, then it's probably just an immature one... in which case, the loss of your affection would hit it pretty badly. Poorly developed Fe fears abandonment.

  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    iwakar doesn't like me anymore...
    Bah, rubbish! :ninja-hug: <---observe fabled ENTP hug (If we can't coerce them, we surprise them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    The mentality isn't seeking to win over someone else in that respect - it is seeking new grounds that is the aim. In all possibility, the ENTP probably didn't even realise the other person was stepped on in their eagerness for the new grounds.
    QFT

    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Perhaps it is only when they grow older that the Ne is reined in by Ti and Fe more. They start to grow wiser, in picking what grounds to explore, and when to leave that shiny new thing alone too. Then the Ne is also used to sense how people are feeling, and they learn that people are fascinating in and of themselves. This slowdown in speed allows more depth, in personal reflection and growth inwards, not just outwards.
    I have not yet witnessed this stage of development as I've never knowingly encountered an ENTP post-30s. I look forward to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    I read another thread about how ExxPs are likely to cheat etc, but personally, I've never been able to form deep connections with more than one person at a time. Any hit is taken deeply if it is from someone whose hugs I value.
    Agreed. I've witnessed this phenomenon in ENTPs, and all I can say is that ENTPs seem paradoxically the exception to this ExxP generalization.

    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    If the ENTP cannot accept that, then it's probably just an immature one... in which case, the loss of your affection would hit it pretty badly. Poorly developed Fe fears abandonment.
    This is enlightenment. It explains bizarre and turbulent relations with my younger brother.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Bah, rubbish! :ninja-hug: <---observe fabled ENTP hug (If we can't coerce them, we surprise them!)



    I have not yet witnessed this stage of development as I've never knowingly encountered an ENTP post-30s. I look forward to it.
    Stick with me then?

    It is not easy though. To consciously slow down. Mind works on so many things at once. I constantly have to self-arrest IRL, to explain what I mean, to think of how to say something / to think how others may take what I say differently, before I choose to say it/not. Sometimes I feel trapped / the mind is not able to get everything out. There are only very few people I feel completely able to let my mind be free with, IRL, online.

    And to be honest, not everyone may reach it; I know I struggle to.

    I guess, in that respect, we're similar to ISTPs. Just my view, but I feel Se and Ne tend towards having this "I'm unbreakable" image of self. The Se exhibits this behaviour via recklessness in activity. The Ne, via recklessness in thoughts & feelings, hence human relationships. One is a danger to the body, the other, to the mind.

    To outgrow this, both have to understand they are more fragile than they think they are. And independence comes not from never needing anyone, but in knowing who to trust, and knowing who to be vulnerable to. It is this realisation that you cannot function alone, which probably shifts the perception and is one of the primary drivers of personal growth and a reprioritization of values to put people they love up there as well, besides shiny new things.

    Agreed. I've witnessed this phenomenon in ENTPs, and all I can say is that ENTPs seem paradoxically the exception to this ExxP generalization.

    This is enlightenment. It explains bizarre and turbulent relations with my younger brother.
    "ENTPs love an audience" is commonly said. But I think few understand why.

    It isn't because we love the sound of our own voices. But that, we find it difficult to see value in our own ideas/the worth/implementability of it, unless we have a mirror, i.e. another to bounce them off.

    Frequently we may be spouting ideas, but it isn't a fact we are convinced of, though we may sound confident. Rather, an idea is more a means of engaging. So to be constantly brushed off is demoralising - the ideas are the extension of the person, and a brush off is basically a devaluing of the person itself.

    Ergo the abandonment fears. Rejection of their thoughts make them feel that you do not want them too. It isn't just the loss of the audience. It is the loss of the mirror.

    Perhaps it works the same for the INFJ, in that, rejection of their affection is seen as rejection of them.

  5. #185
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    This is all really good stuff. Puts into words things I've been thinking about but haven't been able to express.

    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    It is not easy though. To consciously slow down. Mind works on so many things at once. I constantly have to self-arrest IRL, to explain what I mean, to think of how to say something / to think how others may take what I say differently, before I choose to say it/not. Sometimes I feel trapped / the mind is not able to get everything out. There are only very few people I feel completely able to let my mind be free with, IRL, online.
    I know that feeling well. When I was a child, I would say everything I wanted to say, but for a long time thereafter (after a severe drop in confidence) I would hold everything back, worried that nobody would understand it or like it. Now I'm trying to restore a balance, but it can definitely feel like paralysis at times, because there are always so many angles to consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    To outgrow this, both have to understand they are more fragile than they think they are. And independence comes not from never needing anyone, but in knowing who to trust, and knowing who to be vulnerable to. It is this realisation that you cannot function alone, which probably shifts the perception and is one of the primary drivers of personal growth and a reprioritization of values to put people they love up there as well, besides shiny new things.
    This is very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    "ENTPs love an audience" is commonly said. But I think few understand why.

    It isn't because we love the sound of our own voices. But that, we find it difficult to see value in our own ideas/the worth/implementability of it, unless we have a mirror, i.e. another to bounce them off.

    Frequently we may be spouting ideas, but it isn't a fact we are convinced of, though we may sound confident. Rather, an idea is more a means of engaging. So to be constantly brushed off is demoralising - the ideas are the extension of the person, and a brush off is basically a devaluing of the person itself.

    Ergo the abandonment fears. Rejection of their thoughts make them feel that you do not want them too. It isn't just the loss of the audience. It is the loss of the mirror.
    Amen! I was hanging around one of my friends this weekend, and she's a pretty mellow person - she laughs, but doesn't always say much back. I end up talking a lot and making a lot of jokes, but by the end of the night I'm positively sick of myself. I'm starting to realize this - when I act this way, I'm not seeking attention solely for myself, I'm looking to engage someone. And when no one engages, I lose energy.

    I find it totally true, that in the end, I want validation of ideas and thoughts. Or at least some sort of response acknowledging that they've not already started to ignore my ideas and thoughts. I've noticed that when nobody bites the initial bait, I'll start to say things (with confidence) that I don't believe much at all, just for the sake of getting the conversation rolling. It's something I can't really control, as awkward as it can feel. I don't know if that makes sense.
    ALL AROUND THE WORLD PEOPLE EATIN' GUMBO

  6. #186
    Senior Member Kestrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Don't be so caught off balance by a remark an ENTP makes about your character. A lot of the time it can be an attack on your character. It's an Fe thing, not an Ne thing. I've had some ESFjs (FeSi) make comments about my character, but mostly they were just attacking. It's always good to really think about whatever is said about your character cons and pros, just to make sure that they're not trying to trick you into believing what they say, so that they have control over you .
    I usually don't take the criticism as an attack. It's just jarring, initially. Especially since the ENTP is usually clueless that what they're saying could be insulting. They don't seem to throw much weight behind it though.

    And, actually I don't usually feel so insulted by Fe. But I sometimes am annoyed by it, in large doses. It does feel more forceful - closer to attacking than Ne. My ESFJ coworker is always opportunistically poking fun at my ENTP boss, especially when the ENTP says something Fe-tarded. Do ENTPs and ESFJs get along? They seem like polar opposites.
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  7. #187
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Do ENTPs and ESFJs get along? They seem like polar opposites.
    My best friend is an ESFJ, but the dynamic is kind of funny. When she gets into her practical "I'm everybody's momma, gotta get in everyone's business and help out cuz I'm momma" modes, I get really pissed off. I don't usually say Fe-tarded things in conversation, but I can be an Fe-tard when it comes to calling people and scheduling things. She gets really annoyed when I don't call her or don't do something back that she's done for me. Though she's used to the behavior.

    It really depends on the individuals in question I guess. My mom is ISFJ and the aforementioned friend has been with me for 10 years, so I'm pretty high on Fe for an NT, I think. And she's had a lot of Ne exposure thanks to me and her old INFP boyfriend.
    ALL AROUND THE WORLD PEOPLE EATIN' GUMBO

  8. #188
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    I usually don't take the criticism as an attack. It's just jarring, initially. Especially since the ENTP is usually clueless that what they're saying could be insulting. They don't seem to throw much weight behind it though.

    And, actually I don't usually feel so insulted by Fe. But I sometimes am annoyed by it, in large doses. It does feel more forceful - closer to attacking than Ne. My ESFJ coworker is always opportunistically poking fun at my ENTP boss, especially when the ENTP says something Fe-tarded. Do ENTPs and ESFJs get along? They seem like polar opposites.
    SiFe is the dual of the ENTP. FeSi however can be too intense a relationship for anything close to develop. I know that the intensity especilaly rings true when you have a Ti subtype ENTP and an Si subtype ESFJ. The two can usually read eachother almost instantly, and they tend to jump to conclusions around eachother in a heartbeat. Usually, as soon as my eyes meet theirs, I know what they are all about.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiL View Post
    Amen! I was hanging around one of my friends this weekend, and she's a pretty mellow person - she laughs, but doesn't always say much back. I end up talking a lot and making a lot of jokes, but by the end of the night I'm positively sick of myself. I'm starting to realize this - when I act this way, I'm not seeking attention solely for myself, I'm looking to engage someone. And when no one engages, I lose energy.
    +1 frickin millionty
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    I usually don't take the criticism as an attack. It's just jarring, initially. Especially since the ENTP is usually clueless that what they're saying could be insulting. They don't seem to throw much weight behind it though.

    And, actually I don't usually feel so insulted by Fe. But I sometimes am annoyed by it, in large doses. It does feel more forceful - closer to attacking than Ne. My ESFJ coworker is always opportunistically poking fun at my ENTP boss, especially when the ENTP says something Fe-tarded. Do ENTPs and ESFJs get along? They seem like polar opposites.
    I can and do get along with anyone as long as they are not in a position of authority over me.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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