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Thread: Te vs. Ti

  1. #31
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustDave View Post
    That's a good distinction, action vs. contemplation. Thank you.

    Since I have your attention, perhaps you could explain in terms of cognitive functions why NTJs excel at strategy while STJs excel at logistics?
    I know that this question wasn't directed at me, yet I will still answer it. NTJs excel at strategy and planning because the Te (efficiency) is combined with Ni (predicting the future via intuition). STJs, on the other hand will combine their Te with Si, thus resulting in logistic and organizational work.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

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  2. #32
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkw View Post
    I know that this question wasn't directed at me, yet I will still answer it. NTJs excel at strategy and planning because the Te (efficiency) is combined with Ni (predicting the future via intuition). STJs, on the other hand will combine their Te with Si, thus resulting in logistic and organizational work.
    Makes sense to me. So how does Judging effect strategic and logistical abilities? The reason I am asking is allegedly those with a preference for Judging are strong in these area yet (no surprise here) I can not make the connection between these abilities and Judging.

  3. #33
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustDave View Post
    That's a good distinction, action vs. contemplation. Thank you.

    Since I have your attention, perhaps you could explain in terms of cognitive functions why NTJs excel at strategy while STJs excel at logistics?
    Strategy requires big picture thinking. NTPs would do better at strategy than NTJs because strategy represents the theoretical aspect of Thinking which is more in line with Ti than Te.

    STJs apply logic to the small picture more easily and therefore logistics come as second nature to them almost.
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  4. #34
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustDave View Post
    Which function is concerned with the application of formal logic, Ti or Te?

    formal = Te
    logic = Ti
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  5. #35
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustDave View Post
    Makes sense to me. So how does Judging effect strategic and logistical abilities? The reason I am asking is allegedly those with a preference for Judging are strong in these area yet (no surprise here) I can not make the connection between these abilities and Judging.
    Well, to begin, let us look at all 16 MBTI types. We may eliminate all the P types, leaving us with 8. 4 are IxxJs and 4 are ExxJs. All Js use both an introverted perception function (Ni or Si) combined with an extroverted judgment function (Te or Fe). ExxJs have the extroverted judgment function as their dominant function, while the introverted perception function as their auxiliary function (take ENFJ, for instance, which has Fe as dom. and Ni as aux.). Extroverted Judging functions (Te and Fe) are decisive, judgment-oriented functions (hence the name). Since these are the dominant functions of ExxJs, ExxJs are thus the most proactive and forceful (as well as rigid). Contrast this with IxxPs who are most passive and detached (as well as nonchalant). IxxJs are less decisive and judgmental than ExxJs, because they are introverted, yet they still are to a considerable extent, since they still use an extroverted judgment function to deal with the external world. For your use, here is a chart of all J types:

    Fe = empathy, outward expression of emotion, sympathy, helpfulness, etc.
    Te = pragmatic action, application, organization, strategy, etc.

    Ni = imagined scenarios, prediction, vagueness, the future, etc.
    Si = the past, details, atmosphere, one's state of being, etc.

    Thus we get the following:

    NFJ = teaching, spirituality, being a "martyr" or "savior," activism, etc.
    STJ = logistics, organization, data collection, etc.
    SFJ = community service, tradition, keeping society hold together, helping people, etc.
    NTJ = business, strategy, planning, prediction, etc.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
    Solitary/Idiosyncratic, 5w6 sp/sx
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  6. #36
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Trying to define your auxilary and tertiary are you JustDave? I'm assuming you're still an ESP.

    I don't know if anybody's seen this, but I found this site where an artist has painted representations of cognitive functions with water paints.

    bboozer.com - Visual Images of Jung's Psychological Types

    I think it demonstrates the difference between Ti and Te quite clearly, and seems to put formal logic in the realm of Te.

    (I'm assuming the painter doesn't have high Ti though, otherwise she wouldn't have felt the need to put the words Visual and Image together to clarify their meanings.)
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  7. #37
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Strategy requires big picture thinking. NTPs would do better at strategy than NTJs because strategy represents the theoretical aspect of Thinking which is more in line with Ti than Te.

    STJs apply logic to the small picture more easily and therefore logistics come as second nature to them almost.
    Got it. Thank you.

  8. #38
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    Trying to define your auxilary and tertiary are you JustDave? I'm assuming you're still an ESP.

    I don't know if anybody's seen this, but I found this site where an artist has painted representations of cognitive functions with water paints.

    bboozer.com - Visual Images of Jung's Psychological Types

    I think it demonstrates the difference between Ti and Te quite clearly, and seems to put formal logic in the realm of Te.
    Guilty as charged.

  9. #39
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkw View Post
    Well, to begin, let us look at all 16 MBTI types. We may eliminate all the P types, leaving us with 8. 4 are IxxJs and 4 are ExxJs. All Js use both an introverted perception function (Ni or Si) combined with an extroverted judgment function (Te or Fe). ExxJs have the extroverted judgment function as their dominant function, while the introverted perception function as their auxiliary function (take ENFJ, for instance, which has Fe as dom. and Ni as aux.). Extroverted Judging functions (Te and Fe) are decisive, judgment-oriented functions (hence the name). Since these are the dominant functions of ExxJs, ExxJs are thus the most proactive and forceful (as well as rigid). Contrast this with IxxPs who are most passive and detached (as well as nonchalant). IxxJs are less decisive and judgmental than ExxJs, because they are introverted, yet they still are to a considerable extent, since they still use an extroverted judgment function to deal with the external world. For your use, here is a chart of all J types:

    Fe = empathy, outward expression of emotion, sympathy, helpfulness, etc.
    Te = pragmatic action, application, organization, strategy, etc.

    Ni = imagined scenarios, prediction, vagueness, the future, etc.
    Si = the past, details, atmosphere, one's state of being, etc.

    Thus we get the following:

    NFJ = teaching, spirituality, being a "martyr" or "savior," activism, etc.
    STJ = logistics, organization, data collection, etc.
    SFJ = community service, tradition, keeping society hold together, helping people, etc.
    NTJ = business, strategy, planning, prediction, etc.

    So here is my understanding of the relationship between the functions as they relate to strategy and logistics.

    - Fe simply is not objective enough to create a strategy or logistics.

    - TeNi: Te considers what is current and Ni perceives the future thus creating a strategy, which by its nature is concerned with the long-term or "big picture". Ni is an asset in strategy as it is used to overcome ambiguities that might limit perception.

    -TeSi: Te considers what is current and Si creates a plan based on previous experiences and immediate data. However, becuase both data and experience are limited Si cannot pierce the future and thus TeSi people are limited in their strategic ability.

    Finally J provides motivation for closure and the creation of a definitive plan.

    By all means please correct me if I am wrong.

  10. #40
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustDave View Post
    Finally J provides motivation for closure and the creation of a definitive plan.

    By all means please correct me if I am wrong.
    J doesn't do anything. We use it to tell us that our judgement is extraverted.

    If you have an extraverted judgement, then you're likely to seek closure in the outer world. All judgement functions seek closure. It's a misconception to think that just because it's introverted that it's not after closure. It's just more willing to 'change its mind' when the situation changes (object information -- extraverted perception).


    The reason extraverted judgements don't bend to the situation change is because all their information comes from the inner world. Inner perceptions (which usually don't change until the extraverted judgement crosses the finish line) define the goal.

    The situation change is of little concern to extraverted judgement -- its working to change the situation itself anyway. Of course if the stipulations require for a plan change, it will probably happen, but just because means are altered doesn't speak toward the end changing.
    we fukin won boys

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