[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Te vs. Ti

[JustDave]

Most definitely. I would say that most ESTJs have a strong preference for Te and a weak one for Ti. And vice versa for many INTPs.

Here's a thread that you may find useful:

Ti/Te users: Explain the differences.

Bear with me, I can't keep up with all of these good postings.

I would think I am an ESTJ but there are a few major problems with that: I love learning new things, have always been a rule-breaker and for the most part unconventional (watch about 2hrs. of TV a week, minimalist by natures, etc.)

 

[JustDave]

Well, theoretical interest also ties in with N functions, so you could be an N (theory) combined with Te (application).

However, if you are an S, then you would more likely be Ti.

At this point I am almost certain that (despite previous test results) my Ti is very weak as I am horrible at the following: "checking for logical consistency, hairsplitting". And although I find formal logic to be fascinating I am terrible at applying it.

 

[nottaprettygal]

Bear with me, I can't keep up with all of these good postings.

I would think I am an ESTJ but there are a few major problems with that: I love learning new things, have always been a rule-breaker and for the most part unconventional (watch about 2hrs. of TV a week, minimalist by natures, etc.)

Perhaps try taking an online MBTI test. Obviously, it's not official, but it could give you an idea of your most dominant areas.

 

[JustDave]

No, I would say you are an ENTP.

Something to keep in mind is that the only type that has a better bullshit meter than an ENTP is the INFJ. We are usually just too nice to say anything, and also because we like to watch people dig their own graves.

Ever a possibility as I love change and improving things.

 

[JustDave]

Perhaps try taking an online MBTI test. Obviously, it's not official, but it could give you an idea of your most dominant areas.

Those tests are the source of my confusion as the results always type me as either an INFJ or an INTJ. However, neither type is a great fit.

 

[Kiddo]

Ever a possibility as I love change and improving things.

JustDave the ENTP...hm...maybe...maybe not.

It isn't too hard to find one. You just have to watch for the person who manipulates circumstances about themselves or the situation in order to manipulate others. Once you do that those ENTPs stand out like a sore thumb. It's why INFJs make such great mates for them. Because a self respecting INFJ wouldn't stand for that kind of crap.

 

[JustDave]

JustDave the ENTP...hm...maybe...maybe not.

It isn't too hard to find one. You just have to watch for the person who manipulates circumstances about themselves or the situation in order to manipulate others. Once you do that those ENTPs stand out like a sore thumb. It's why INFJs make such great mates for them. Because a self respecting INFJ wouldn't stand for that kind of crap.

Perhaps I am not an ENTP then as I prefer brutal disarming honesty over subtle manipulation.

To return to the OP, wouldn't an ENTP would have strong Ti and weak Te? My preference is the opposite.

 

[JustDave]

With regard to creating order, how much influence does judging have on Te?

 

[SolitaryWalker]

That's great, but how does Te differ from Ti?

Te applies paths of reasoning already developed by others, Ti concocts those of its own. Tis like Aristotle, Leibniz and Russell were the ones who explored logic. Tes were merely concerned with memorizing their teaching and passing down to others.

Virtually the Extroverted and Introverted Functions are of the same essence. The salient difference is that whilst the Introverted functions dwell in depth to explore their core, the Extroverted are most concerned with presenting that deeper essence to the external world.

Accordingly, Ti is concerned with exploring and understanding logic in greatest depth possible and Te with applying logic to the external world. Ni with creating the most powerful vision possible, Ne with applying it to the external world. Fi with soul searching, Fe with applying this to the world of people. I'll spare myself the account of Se and Si.

With regard to creating order, how much influence does judging have on Te?

Te creates external order, Ti internal. A Te will have all of his external activities organized and a Ti will look to have clarity with his beliefs about the world. Thus a Ti will know exactly what he thinks, and a Te exactly what he does and what he needs to do. A good way to think of the Extroversion/Introversion distinction is that one is concerned primarily with action and the other with contemplation.

 

[JustDave]

Te applies paths of reasoning already developed by others, Ti concocts those of its own. Tis like Aristotle, Leibniz and Russell were the ones who explored logic. Tes were merely concerned with memorizing their teaching and passing down to others.

Virtually the Extroverted and Introverted Functions are of the same essence. The salient difference is that whilst the Introverted functions dwell in depth to explore their core, the Extroverted are most concerned with presenting that deeper essence to the external world.

Accordingly, Ti is concerned with exploring and understanding logic in greatest depth possible and Te with applying logic to the external world. Ni with creating the most powerful vision possible, Ne with applying it to the external world. Fi with soul searching, Fe with applying this to the world of people. I'll spare myself the account of Se and Si.



Te creates external order, Ti internal. A Te will have all of his external activities organized and a Ti will look to have clarity with his beliefs about the world. Thus a Ti will know exactly what he thinks, and a Te exactly what he does and what he needs to do. A good way to think of the Extroversion/Introversion distinction is that one is concerned primarily with action and the other with contemplation.

That's a good distinction, action vs. contemplation. Thank you.

Since I have your attention, perhaps you could explain in terms of cognitive functions why NTJs excel at strategy while STJs excel at logistics?

 

[MerkW]

That's a good distinction, action vs. contemplation. Thank you.

Since I have your attention, perhaps you could explain in terms of cognitive functions why NTJs excel at strategy while STJs excel at logistics?

I know that this question wasn't directed at me, yet I will still answer it. NTJs excel at strategy and planning because the Te (efficiency) is combined with Ni (predicting the future via intuition). STJs, on the other hand will combine their Te with Si, thus resulting in logistic and organizational work.

 

[JustDave]

I know that this question wasn't directed at me, yet I will still answer it. NTJs excel at strategy and planning because the Te (efficiency) is combined with Ni (predicting the future via intuition). STJs, on the other hand will combine their Te with Si, thus resulting in logistic and organizational work.

Makes sense to me. So how does Judging effect strategic and logistical abilities? The reason I am asking is allegedly those with a preference for Judging are strong in these area yet (no surprise here) I can not make the connection between these abilities and Judging.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

That's a good distinction, action vs. contemplation. Thank you.

Since I have your attention, perhaps you could explain in terms of cognitive functions why NTJs excel at strategy while STJs excel at logistics?

Strategy requires big picture thinking. NTPs would do better at strategy than NTJs because strategy represents the theoretical aspect of Thinking which is more in line with Ti than Te.

STJs apply logic to the small picture more easily and therefore logistics come as second nature to them almost.

 

[Mort Belfry]

Which function is concerned with the application of formal logic, Ti or Te?

formal = Te
logic = Ti

 

[MerkW]

Makes sense to me. So how does Judging effect strategic and logistical abilities? The reason I am asking is allegedly those with a preference for Judging are strong in these area yet (no surprise here) I can not make the connection between these abilities and Judging.

Well, to begin, let us look at all 16 MBTI types. We may eliminate all the P types, leaving us with 8. 4 are IxxJs and 4 are ExxJs. All Js use both an introverted perception function (Ni or Si) combined with an extroverted judgment function (Te or Fe). ExxJs have the extroverted judgment function as their dominant function, while the introverted perception function as their auxiliary function (take ENFJ, for instance, which has Fe as dom. and Ni as aux.). Extroverted Judging functions (Te and Fe) are decisive, judgment-oriented functions (hence the name). Since these are the dominant functions of ExxJs, ExxJs are thus the most proactive and forceful (as well as rigid). Contrast this with IxxPs who are most passive and detached (as well as nonchalant). IxxJs are less decisive and judgmental than ExxJs, because they are introverted, yet they still are to a considerable extent, since they still use an extroverted judgment function to deal with the external world. For your use, here is a chart of all J types:

Fe = empathy, outward expression of emotion, sympathy, helpfulness, etc.
Te = pragmatic action, application, organization, strategy, etc.

Ni = imagined scenarios, prediction, vagueness, the future, etc.
Si = the past, details, atmosphere, one's state of being, etc.

Thus we get the following:

NFJ = teaching, spirituality, being a "martyr" or "savior," activism, etc.
STJ = logistics, organization, data collection, etc.
SFJ = community service, tradition, keeping society hold together, helping people, etc.
NTJ = business, strategy, planning, prediction, etc.

 

[Mort Belfry]

Trying to define your auxilary and tertiary are you JustDave? I'm assuming you're still an ESP.

I don't know if anybody's seen this, but I found this site where an artist has painted representations of cognitive functions with water paints.

bboozer.com - Visual Images of Jung's Psychological Types

I think it demonstrates the difference between Ti and Te quite clearly, and seems to put formal logic in the realm of Te.

(I'm assuming the painter doesn't have high Ti though, otherwise she wouldn't have felt the need to put the words Visual and Image together to clarify their meanings.)

 

[JustDave]

Strategy requires big picture thinking. NTPs would do better at strategy than NTJs because strategy represents the theoretical aspect of Thinking which is more in line with Ti than Te.

STJs apply logic to the small picture more easily and therefore logistics come as second nature to them almost.

Got it. Thank you.

 

[JustDave]

Trying to define your auxilary and tertiary are you JustDave? I'm assuming you're still an ESP.

I don't know if anybody's seen this, but I found this site where an artist has painted representations of cognitive functions with water paints.

bboozer.com - Visual Images of Jung's Psychological Types

I think it demonstrates the difference between Ti and Te quite clearly, and seems to put formal logic in the realm of Te.

Guilty as charged.

 

[JustDave]

Well, to begin, let us look at all 16 MBTI types. We may eliminate all the P types, leaving us with 8. 4 are IxxJs and 4 are ExxJs. All Js use both an introverted perception function (Ni or Si) combined with an extroverted judgment function (Te or Fe). ExxJs have the extroverted judgment function as their dominant function, while the introverted perception function as their auxiliary function (take ENFJ, for instance, which has Fe as dom. and Ni as aux.). Extroverted Judging functions (Te and Fe) are decisive, judgment-oriented functions (hence the name). Since these are the dominant functions of ExxJs, ExxJs are thus the most proactive and forceful (as well as rigid). Contrast this with IxxPs who are most passive and detached (as well as nonchalant). IxxJs are less decisive and judgmental than ExxJs, because they are introverted, yet they still are to a considerable extent, since they still use an extroverted judgment function to deal with the external world. For your use, here is a chart of all J types:

Fe = empathy, outward expression of emotion, sympathy, helpfulness, etc.
Te = pragmatic action, application, organization, strategy, etc.

Ni = imagined scenarios, prediction, vagueness, the future, etc.
Si = the past, details, atmosphere, one's state of being, etc.

Thus we get the following:

NFJ = teaching, spirituality, being a "martyr" or "savior," activism, etc.
STJ = logistics, organization, data collection, etc.
SFJ = community service, tradition, keeping society hold together, helping people, etc.
NTJ = business, strategy, planning, prediction, etc.

So here is my understanding of the relationship between the functions as they relate to strategy and logistics.

- Fe simply is not objective enough to create a strategy or logistics.

- TeNi: Te considers what is current and Ni perceives the future thus creating a strategy, which by its nature is concerned with the long-term or "big picture". Ni is an asset in strategy as it is used to overcome ambiguities that might limit perception.

-TeSi: Te considers what is current and Si creates a plan based on previous experiences and immediate data. However, becuase both data and experience are limited Si cannot pierce the future and thus TeSi people are limited in their strategic ability.

Finally J provides motivation for closure and the creation of a definitive plan.

By all means please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Nocapszy]

Finally J provides motivation for closure and the creation of a definitive plan.

By all means please correct me if I am wrong.

J doesn't do anything. We use it to tell us that our judgement is extraverted.

If you have an extraverted judgement, then you're likely to seek closure in the outer world. All judgement functions seek closure. It's a misconception to think that just because it's introverted that it's not after closure. It's just more willing to 'change its mind' when the situation changes (object information -- extraverted perception).


The reason extraverted judgements don't bend to the situation change is because all their information comes from the inner world. Inner perceptions (which usually don't change until the extraverted judgement crosses the finish line) define the goal.

The situation change is of little concern to extraverted judgement -- its working to change the situation itself anyway. Of course if the stipulations require for a plan change, it will probably happen, but just because means are altered doesn't speak toward the end changing.