[INTJ] INTJ roomie becomming intolerable

[anticlimatic]

We've been best friends for over a decade, and have roomed together with great synergy for many years. Lately though, he's changed, and has gone full-retard introvert/paranoid/depressed/asshole on me. He hates his job in middle management, but is stuck there (family business loyalty; pays too well to justify ever leaving), and I think this might be contributing to what I'm just going to call his 'condition.'

He's always needed his introvert time, but in the past he's balanced it with a healthy amount of social interaction and novel interests here and there. I should also add he has an addictive type of personality for both substances and interests (classic INTJ subject matter bender syndrome). He is familiar with MBTI, or rather, with INTJness, at least on a superficial level, but as is often the case with INTJs he is primarily interested in his own type, and doesn't know much about other types, or other type-functions. Anyway-- the (somewhat) healthy balance he's maintained over the years seems to have steadily eroded since moving out of the city and into the country, to the point where his routine has tread itself too deeply. He seldom goes out, and he seldom has company (by his choice), and instead follows a weekly formula of wake up-- go to job he hates-- come home, play video games for 6-10 hours (I should add it's the same video game, he just plays it over and over and over again, has probably beaten it a billion times at least), then falls asleep on the couch in front of the TV for half the night, before transitioning himself into his bed for the second half, and repeat. His weekends off only slightly varry from that routine (instead of work, he substitutes buying and cooking a bunch of food, and uses the rest of the time for more video games).

I'm used to leaving him alone, because that's what he wants, and that's one of the things I get about INTJs as an INTP-- but lately he has been stopping me as I walk past to bitch about the most inane and trivial things conceivable. Things like taking too many showers to rack up the water bill, letting my girlfriend use a spare key hidden in the garage to let herself in while I'm asleep, being able to hear her voice ever, keeping my own bathroom that he never uses or steps foot in spotlessly clean, making sure to leave the lid of the washing machine open so mold doesn't build up inside, etc.

The last straw was when he told me that he thought my girlfriend was moving in, and she needed to not come over as often. When I asked him why he thought this considering she has her own house, and only visits 2-3 times a week for a few hours, usually when he isn't even here, never spends the night, and that we keep things 100% to my room just to appease his isolationist nature-- he responded that he just hated the sound of her voice, then called her a 'lying cheating whore,' and said that he just didn't trust her for reasons he couldn't articulate (she is an ENFJ, so technically he was right on all points, but none of it has anything to do with him). Understandable, but for some reason it felt like he was saying he didn't trust ME (since the girlfriend is my proxy and responsibility, and that IMO trusting her is not something he needs to do or not do at all).

Up until that point I was fine taking the high road and being accommodating to his needs, but now I feel like I need to do something else. I feel like I should move out, but I also feel like if I do that he will just spiral farther downward and end up dead. Also I love the guy when he's what I consider 'himself,' and under normal conditions we're great room mates-- I fix the shit that breaks, and he maintains the Te orderliness. He just hasn't been 'himself' in a long time. I know he doesn't mean to take it out on me, I'm just the only one there.

Advice?

What can I do to help him pull out of the death spiral?

Should I just move out? Would that be perceived as a symbol of judging/betraying him, ie forfeiting our friendship?

 

[Devenir]

INTJ here. Sounds like the guy is clinically depressed and needs to see someone.

Now, I realise that asking you to sit down and have a nice, hearty fireside conversation with your INTJ roomie will probably elicit the same reaction you'd return to a have-you-tried-turning-it-on-and-off prompt, but really, give it a go. Ask him if he'd prefer to converse online. Be reassuring but firm, of all things, and let him know where he's crossed his boundaries. That'd be enough for me to correct my own behaviour at least, so I can't say much else. Maybe until he pulls himself together, you see if you can try visiting your gf at her place more (it'd probably be better for the both of you too).

And yeah, I probably would take it negatively if a roomie were to move out on me, without first having explained what was up. Which is why I think it's all the more important that you at least give the above a try. Good luck, bro. Let us know how it pans out.

 

[Coriolis]

Advice?

What can I do to help him pull out of the death spiral?

Should I just move out? Would that be perceived as a symbol of judging/betraying him, ie forfeiting our friendship?

I agree with Devenir. Given the length of your relationship with this roommate and the fact that you did value his friendship, at least over the years, it would be better to level with him about the situation. Don't ascribe intentions or even blame, just be very factual about the things he is doing and the negative effect it is having on you and your relationship, as friends and as roommates. You can tell him you understand he is going through a tough time, and (sincerely, I hope) ask if there is anything you can do to help. But it is also the opportunity to tell plainly where your boundaries are: at what point you will no longer be able to remain his roommate, or perhaps even his friend.

Based on how he reacts to this, you can reassess what to do from there.

 

[anticlimatic]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to talk to him about seeing a counselor, I think he would actually really enjoy it-- if it was the right one. Some time ago some kind of efficiency expert came into his work and really clicked with him; let him talk about himself, his anger issues, MBTI related stuff for hours on end, and it really seemed to have a positive impact, which he communicated with me. I'm going to use that to suggest he go get more of the same, maybe somewhere else.

Thanks again.

 

[Nicodemus]

I agree with the others. Be frank, non-judgmental, talk about the effects his bahavior has on your life. Let him know what you think, but do not make demands.

As for why he has deteriorated to that point: From what you describe, it seems that he is lacking a goal to work towards. An INTJ without a plan is a sad sight and bound for depression if the stage he is at does not fulfill him. Loyalty and money are nice and all, but life satisfaction is more important.

Also:

[...] he responded that he just hated the sound of her voice, then called her a 'lying cheating whore,' and said that he just didn't trust her for reasons he couldn't articulate (she is an ENFJ, so technically he was right on all points, but none of it has anything to do with him).

I laughed.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Quite a sticky situation.

Called your girlfriend a "cheating whore"??

Yikes. I might lose it on that one.

I've had something similar happen with an INFP. He was an all day stoner with a huge inheritance and didn't work (he was working when we moved in).

But yeah, he'd bitch about the smallest things and often say like, insane things like, "Hey since you like yoga and buddha, you should consider being more of a servant and do my dishes every once in a while." ( He always left his shit in the sink). I was like, "Ok he's finally lost his mind."

It's just tough having one other roomie, if they decide to go crazy, because it's basically your side vs. his with no mediator.

Would he be open to a Kumbaya heart-to-heart? If so, that's good.

And really, is he truly on a downward spiral to death? I mean, he definitely sounds depressed, but suicidal is different. You did mention drug addiction. If it's weed, that's one thing, if it's pills, that's another. Crack is bad too.

It also sounds like you may be in over your head as far as being his life coach. I mean, I'm sure you can do things to help and show the way. Some people can snap out of these mindsets with a little guidance, but by no means everyone, or every time.

But yeah, best to have a civilized talk before something blows and some kind of shouting match ensues and you guys end up losing the friendship (this has unfortunately happened to me and is actually somewhat common amongst friends that live together, so tread lightly if you can. I'll say that sometimes though, lines are crossed that there is no more "working it out" with me anyway).

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, what video game?

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

We've been best friends for over a decade, and have roomed together with great synergy for many years. Lately though, he's changed, and has gone full-retard introvert/paranoid/depressed/asshole on me. He hates his job in middle management, but is stuck there (family business loyalty; pays too well to justify ever leaving), and I think this might be contributing to what I'm just going to call his 'condition.'

He responded that he just hated the sound of her voice, then called her a 'lying cheating whore,' and said that he just didn't trust her for reasons he couldn't articulate he only one

Advice?

What can I do to help him pull out of the death spiral?

Should I just move out? Would that be perceived as a symbol of judging/betraying him, ie forfeiting our friendship?

Maybe he is gay ?

I would move on or make him leave AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. This is anyway unbearable and stressful for you.

 

[Destiny]

Maybe he is gay ?

I would move on or make him leave AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. This is anyway unbearable and stressful for you.

lmao he isn't gay. The guy has depression.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

If he can't admit he is gay, for sure he can become very depressive

 

[PocketFullOf]

I agree with everyone else here, he sounds depressed. I had a friend who went through something similar (but was INTP). I would talk to him, since he's INTJ he should accept what you're saying.

 

[Chthonic]

now I feel like I need to do something else. I feel like I should move out, but I also feel like if I do that he will just spiral farther downward and end up dead.

Advice?

What can I do to help him pull out of the death spiral?

Should I just move out? Would that be perceived as a symbol of judging/betraying him, ie forfeiting our friendship?

A few thoughts from this INTJ.

- Trust that he won't end up dead. He'll probably just end up in a bad emotional place that pisses him off to the point of change. Some people are like that, they need to bottom out. He's an adult and probably won't self combust.
- He probably doesn't want help out of his death spiral, because it's his process and he may even resent your intervention if you offer it.
- Yes, for your own sanity most likely move out. He's unlikely to perceive anything with a degree of clarity so don't worry about how it's being perceived. Just inform him you are ramping your relationship with your girl up a notch, want to see her more, have her stay over more and that you are respecting his need for space by taking it elsewhere. Eventually he will come around to the sense in that.

Just my thoughts feel free to do what you want with them.*

*Disclaimer - I'm not a fan of interventions, having had some people in my life attempt them. They are no longer in my life. It just felt like a violation of my free will, rather than caring. As you can see, I'm okay. But you know your friend best and can make that call better than anyone here.

 

[Coriolis]

A few thoughts from this INTJ.

- Trust that he won't end up dead. He'll probably just end up in a bad emotional place that pisses him off to the point of change. Some people are like that, they need to bottom out. He's an adult and probably won't self combust.
- He probably doesn't want help out of his death spiral, because it's his process and he may even resent your intervention if you offer it.
- Yes, for your own sanity most likely move out. He's unlikely to perceive anything with a degree of clarity so don't worry about how it's being perceived. Just inform him you are ramping your relationship with your girl up a notch, want to see her more, have her stay over more and that you are respecting his need for space by taking it elsewhere. Eventually he will come around to the sense in that.

Just my thoughts feel free to do what you want with them.*

*Disclaimer - I'm not a fan of interventions, having had some people in my life attempt them. They are no longer in my life. It just felt like a violation of my free will, rather than caring. As you can see, I'm okay. But you know your friend best and can make that call better than anyone here.

While I agree that the highlighted are a real possibility, the length and extent of your relationship suggests it is still worthwhile to discuss the situation with him, if only once. This is less an intervention (i.e. attempt to get him to follow some course of action), as a friend levelling with a friend about a serious problem that has developed in the relationship. I would feel resentful and betrayed were I in his shoes and my friend/roommate did not confront me plainly about the situation before taking a big step like moving out. In your shoes as the friend/roommate, I would feel like I owed it to myself and him to do at least this.

 

[teothebest]

A few thoughts from this INTJ.

- Trust that he won't end up dead. He'll probably just end up in a bad emotional place that pisses him off to the point of change. Some people are like that, they need to bottom out. He's an adult and probably won't self combust.
- He probably doesn't want help out of his death spiral, because it's his process and he may even resent your intervention if you offer it.
- Yes, for your own sanity most likely move out. He's unlikely to perceive anything with a degree of clarity so don't worry about how it's being perceived. Just inform him you are ramping your relationship with your girl up a notch, want to see her more, have her stay over more and that you are respecting his need for space by taking it elsewhere. Eventually he will come around to the sense in that.

Just my thoughts feel free to do what you want with them.*

*Disclaimer - I'm not a fan of interventions, having had some people in my life attempt them. They are no longer in my life. It just felt like a violation of my free will, rather than caring. As you can see, I'm okay. But you know your friend best and can make that call better than anyone here.

I agree with Chthonic. as an INTJ, I can tell you he does not want your help (or at least he will never admit that), and that you'd better move out, for both your and his sake. anyway, this doesn't mean you have to give up on him: just tell him you're moving away to let him more freedom (and because you want to take your relationship to an higher level, but I would skip this part since I guess he would find it an annoying display of your feelings), and that does not mean you want to terminate your friendship, rather that you want to find a viable way to make it survive.
once you moved away, take some time to verify whether he's changed or not, and then try spending some time with him to talk about how he feels (not to brazenly though, you don't want him too feel like you're invading his privacy).
on a side note, if you really intend to upkeep this friendship, I think you should try a way to make him and your girlfriend get on at least a bit better. that should keep him from calling her a bitch again

 

[Belle of Kilronan]

We've been best friends for over a decade, and have roomed together with great synergy for many years. Lately though, he's changed, and has gone full-retard introvert/paranoid/depressed/asshole on me. He hates his job in middle management, but is stuck there (family business loyalty; pays too well to justify ever leaving), and I think this might be contributing to what I'm just going to call his 'condition.'

He's always needed his introvert time, but in the past he's balanced it with a healthy amount of social interaction and novel interests here and there. I should also add he has an addictive type of personality for both substances and interests (classic INTJ subject matter bender syndrome). He is familiar with MBTI, or rather, with INTJness, at least on a superficial level, but as is often the case with INTJs he is primarily interested in his own type, and doesn't know much about other types, or other type-functions. Anyway-- the (somewhat) healthy balance he's maintained over the years seems to have steadily eroded since moving out of the city and into the country, to the point where his routine has tread itself too deeply. He seldom goes out, and he seldom has company (by his choice), and instead follows a weekly formula of wake up-- go to job he hates-- come home, play video games for 6-10 hours (I should add it's the same video game, he just plays it over and over and over again, has probably beaten it a billion times at least), then falls asleep on the couch in front of the TV for half the night, before transitioning himself into his bed for the second half, and repeat. His weekends off only slightly varry from that routine (instead of work, he substitutes buying and cooking a bunch of food, and uses the rest of the time for more video games).

I'm used to leaving him alone, because that's what he wants, and that's one of the things I get about INTJs as an INTP-- but lately he has been stopping me as I walk past to bitch about the most inane and trivial things conceivable. Things like taking too many showers to rack up the water bill, letting my girlfriend use a spare key hidden in the garage to let herself in while I'm asleep, being able to hear her voice ever, keeping my own bathroom that he never uses or steps foot in spotlessly clean, making sure to leave the lid of the washing machine open so mold doesn't build up inside, etc.

The last straw was when he told me that he thought my girlfriend was moving in, and she needed to not come over as often. When I asked him why he thought this considering she has her own house, and only visits 2-3 times a week for a few hours, usually when he isn't even here, never spends the night, and that we keep things 100% to my room just to appease his isolationist nature-- he responded that he just hated the sound of her voice, then called her a 'lying cheating whore,' and said that he just didn't trust her for reasons he couldn't articulate (she is an ENFJ, so technically he was right on all points, but none of it has anything to do with him). Understandable, but for some reason it felt like he was saying he didn't trust ME (since the girlfriend is my proxy and responsibility, and that IMO trusting her is not something he needs to do or not do at all).

Up until that point I was fine taking the high road and being accommodating to his needs, but now I feel like I need to do something else. I feel like I should move out, but I also feel like if I do that he will just spiral farther downward and end up dead. Also I love the guy when he's what I consider 'himself,' and under normal conditions we're great room mates-- I fix the shit that breaks, and he maintains the Te orderliness. He just hasn't been 'himself' in a long time. I know he doesn't mean to take it out on me, I'm just the only one there.

Advice?

What can I do to help him pull out of the death spiral?

Should I just move out? Would that be perceived as a symbol of judging/betraying him, ie forfeiting our friendship?

Just be a good friend to him. It may not be as easy for you to empathize with him, seeing that Fe is your last function and you have disdain toward INTJs in general, but see to it that he gets professional help from an understanding and empathetic counselor. (Sidenote: How old is he?) Also, speaking from experience, if an INTJ doesn't have the liberty to control their own destiny, they will try to exert control over their immediate environment. This pickiness is bound to frustrate other types, because they don't really know where it's coming from. Some people just don't want to deal with an INTJ at that point and just leave them alone. I think your friend should talk to a person that they can truly trust, instead of you.

 

[anticlimatic]

Old thread, but I wanted to update it on what happened for posterity (Si). A couple months after I posted this thread he surprised me one morning by declaring that he wanted to be 'roommate free' by the end of the year. Basically asking me to move out without really blaming it on ME, and also being very flexible as far as how that went, just as long as it was a goal I was working towards. We got along a lot better after that for quite a while, and shortly before I moved out he reconnected with an ex-girlfriend of his (who now has a couple kids- she's a complete gold digger, but is his type physically). She set herself up to move in in my place, but he was a bit apprehensive. He even extended my move out deadline by a year if I needed it (which I thanked him for, an extra month did help) as kind of an excuse to keep her from moving in with her kids so fast (like before they even re-consummated their relationship- and he hates kids, btw). Anyway, I moved out on good terms (he gave me a hand with it) and she moved in, and other than one time a few months ago when I messaged him about a hat I left behind and stopped by for a bit to visit and collect it, I haven't heard from him at all. I don't know if it's just the classic ex-roomie burnout, but I'm not sure if we're still friends. We're not enemies. I never disrespected his girlfriend. But I just never hear from him. I wonder if he wants to hear from me from time to time.

Still, living alone is sooooo much better than with a roomie. Kind of ironic that he booted me to be 'roommate free' only to end up with three of them in my place.

 

[Felix5]

Advice:

Move Out.

Lol...I don't know what else can be said here. Your roommate sounds like a pain in the ass. Why put up with a pain in the ass for any longer than you need to? You have your life to live, don't let this guy hold you back.

Personally, I think the best place to live for INTJs is the city. A lot of people would falsely assume the country would be better for introverts because they seem to like quiet places to contemplate. Realistically it's much better for introverts to keep busy, to physically be around people forcibly, and to interact on their own.

INTJs in particular have a tendency to isolate themselves. We can often become cynical, nihilistic, and paranoid when we do this because all of that isolation leads to rumination, which leads to depression.

I would certainly tell your INTJ friend how you feel before moving out. Then he will put two and two together and realize that there are consequences to his actions.

I was like this in high school and in my very early 20s. Once I dropped the isolationism, negative attitude, and cynicism, i definitely grew as a person. I also felt much more comfortable around people. INTJs can get very anxious around people and may even turn into agoraphobics, which may only exacerbate their feelings of nihilism and cynicism. We need tough love to pull us out of it.

As for his comments about your girlfriend...wow! I mean, sometimes INTJs just get a sense for people, but I think it's amazing that he thought it was ok to verbalize it in that way. Like does he have no verbal filter on that mouth of his?