• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ENTJ] Why do ENTJ's bully

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Some people think objects are the thing and relationships are the byproduct and some people think relationships are the thing and objects the byproduct. Truth is we can learn to see it both ways.

You are still avoiding her question. And still avoiding mine.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Back on topic here:

Earlier I mentioned that ENTJ's are more prone to anger displacement. The truth is all people are prone to anger displacement.

But what is true particularly for the ENTJ, and maybe the cause of ENTJ bullying or seeming as a facade, is that the ENTJ will overlook displacement as a symptom of success after the fact. This ties into the "ends justify the means," syndrome we have spoken about and which is indicative of TE stuck in the grip of inferior FI. This actually may seem to make the ENTJ a sort of bully which he is not, but if he becomes conscious of his displacement and does not resolve it we could say that this would imply a sort of haphazard bullying or simply a recklessness where one does not consider the effect on others. Instead, the ENTJ becomes skewed more towards object gratification (inferior FI seeping into SE and hijacking TE) or unconscious actions.

some source material:
ENTJ Growth & Careers

ctrl-f: "motto"
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I always just assumed it was E outward demonstration, T preference for impersonality, NJ tendency to have strong, focused opinions, and J tendency to actively control the environment combining to yield assertive, pointed action that can feel threatening to more mellow and/or fuzzy types. When ENTJs lean unhealthy, it can definitely turn into bullying, but otherwise it could equally be another type responding poorly to the ENTJ.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I always just assumed it was E outward demonstration, T preference for impersonality, NJ tendency to have strong, focused opinions, and J tendency to actively control the environment combining to yield assertive, pointed action that can feel threatening to more mellow and/or fuzzy types. When ENTJs lean unhealthy, it can definitely turn into bullying, but otherwise it could equally be another type responding poorly to the ENTJ.

It's definitely a possibility although I have to say based on some ENTJ's themselves are mellow. I myself can range from entirely drab to talking for endless hours upon hours about executing a plan or some Idea I have for business.

This video does a good job of explaining the range of ENTJ expression.


The way he describes the physical posture is how I spot other ENTJ's and it's entirely true and I exhibit the same sort of posture.

I must say though that I've seen a lot of of ENTJ interviews on the net and many of them seem shaky and weak in their stance. From poker, I get the sense that they are always bluffing.

Also, I think ESTP's are generally pretty tough and they get similar vibes from the attitude of some ENTJ's stuck in their inferior function.
 

Redbone

Orisha
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I haven't visited ENTJ sections on other forums so I can't comment on this. I have known/been close to a few ENTJs and didn't think of them as bullies. I've always liked them and got along very well with them.

They can rub people the wrong way by being brusque, impatient, and callous (read: "I'm just being real!")? Yeah. I think there are some that are knocked a little off center by ENTJs because they take a direct path to a goal and it can trigger feelings of insecurity in others (in other places, the rudeness meter will be off the scale). Even though I think this is more likely with ESTJs because they are more likely to explain to you why this is screwed up and you need to do it this way...I do feel bullied when this happens. "Lemme show your puny Te how it's REALLY done! And get your Si out to take notes so that this crap doesn't happen again!" :cry:

ENTJs, like INTJs, don't explain and seem...well have always seemed much more patient to me and willing to let me feel my way through a process as long I am picking it up quickly.
 

Little_Sticks

New member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
1,358
I actually met an ENTJ that happens to be in charge of me at work. He's great - one of the few leaders I've ever experienced that has both patience and a capacity to understand the people around them, based on their motivations. He can read into people. And we've had discussions before and seem to agree on a lot. It was kind of strange because I guess I've always had this idea of an ENTJ being like an ESTJ or something, quick to jump to conclusions and into things without thinking about the consequences. But no, he's pretty much the opposite of that. He's the kind of person that will sit and observe when an argument goes on because he doesn't believe he should involve himself unless it seems necessary; of course if you argue with him, that's different, but he's also pretty careful not to offend people, which I thought was kind of cute. He understands that people understand and perceive reality in many different ways and seems pretty accepting of that in general. He's not a bully at all. If I had to label him anything, I'd say he's much more like a scholar than this image of a psychopathic executive pioneering some corporation or business. He's actually against the idea of a corporate dream or career and believes modern day problems and pressures are something we've slowly created for ourselves, something I do agree with, without going into detail.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I actually met an ENTJ that happens to be in charge of me at work. He's great - one of the few leaders I've ever experienced that has both patience and a capacity to understand the people around them, based on their motivations. He can read into people. And we've had discussions before and seem to agree on a lot. It was kind of strange because I guess I've always had this idea of an ENTJ being like an ESTJ or something, quick to jump to conclusions and into things without thinking about the consequences. But no, he's pretty much the opposite of that. He's the kind of person that will sit and observe when an argument goes on because he doesn't believe he should involve himself unless it seems necessary; of course if you argue with him, that's different, but he's also pretty careful not to offend people, which I thought was kind of cute. He understands that people understand and perceive reality in many different ways and seems pretty accepting of that in general. He's not a bully at all. If I had to label him anything, I'd say he's much more like a scholar than this image of a psychopathic executive pioneering some corporation or business. He's actually against the idea of a corporate dream or career and believes modern day problems and pressures are something we've slowly created for ourselves, something I do agree with, without going into detail.

Could you imagine having a conversation with him regarding precognition, synchronicity, or NDE's?
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
A large number of posts perpetuating a petty personal dispute has been moved to the Graveyard. This sort of thing should be dealt with off the main forum, as it constitutes a thread derail. Do stay on topic, and try to be constructive in what you post.

Carry on.
 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
2,910
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Some of the biggest insulters in forum history are INTJs. Are you new to the forum?
True. :D

I only meant that ENTJs are generally more direct and outspoken, whereas INTJs are not necessarily so. And I was also speaking more from my RL experience rather than on the forum. In forums, INTJs are far worse and ENTJs are pussycats by comparison. Maybe INTJs are simply more expressive and outspoke in writing (which could be attributed to that studied, holistic thinking, which writing lends itself to).

I would be more hurt by the words of an INTJ than ENTJ because INTJs understand people better and are better able to recognize how their actions can hurt people. It also feels more personal with INTJs whereas the Fi of ENTJ is stunted; they don’t choose people based on their understanding of someone’s individual weakness, they choose anyone that can’t speak Te.
Absolutely. I agree that this can certainly be the case. I was only referring to the nature of the expression and not to the nature or degree of offence given.

Just like an Fi-dom, they are confused on what to do with their inferior function. You’re projecting a lot of negativity onto it, think about it, what do you do with your Te? No ones knows what to do with their inferior, it’s invasive and bewildering.
See this is what I meant about saying about how I can also end up expressing things bluntly and it comes across badly. I was only making observations. I was not passing any judgement on either type or for people struggling their inferior function. I would certainly expect ExTJs would think my Te usage to be pathetic. I find many Inf-Fi qualities in ENTJs incredibly charming and disarming, much like ENTJs seem to be charmed when INFPs act assertively.

I really enjoy ENTJs. In the last few years I have found them more and more intriguing. That's part of the reason I'm posting in this thread. I apologise if I gave any offence.

That sounds like an ENTJ under a lot of stress, they’re much more reasonable and focused usually.
When it is under stress it is more angry and defensive, however it's not always demonstrated in that fashion. Like I said, ENTJs like to poke holes in others' argument as a means of testing the veracity of ideas or to help uncovering new thinking. This form of attack is how Te-Ni thinking operates; it resists internalising new information before its validity has been established to a satisfactory degree. It is an effective and legitimate way of going about things - I don't wish to claim otherwise. As a Fi-dom I'm naturally inclined to do the complete opposite: internalise everything in order to make sense of the world. There are flaws in both. It means ENTJs can come across as unsympathetic, argumentative and resistant. OTOH, INFPs can end up overwhelmed with details and unable to take appropriate action, they can fail to question and challenge information enough, and are inclined to take things way too personally.

I’m not sure I agree that they run interference on themselves. They’re very literal people, what you see is what you get. The only difference between them and ESTJs is that you can get a explanation out of the ESTJ, ENTJ are good at explaining, they just can’t be bothered.
It's not conscious - the inferior rarely is. To me they are literal in superficial terms, but in other ways I find them deep, contradictory and complex.

And just to clarify I was speaking much more of unhealthy/immature versions of the type.
For me much this goes without saying. I like ENTJs a great deal. Perhaps I missed something you didn't, but it seemed to me that the OP was about exploring a potential ENTJ flaw/attribute, and was not inviting everyone to participate in character assassination of the type. I agree that ENTJs are often misunderstood and that people are quick to point the finger at them. This is certainly a factor in some people's perception of them as bullies.

Not to be rude, but if this is directed at me in any way, it's like trying to teach your granny to suck eggs. I am an INFP after all - this sort of thinking is my natural mindset. ;)

I spoke of a ENTJ that bullied me, but in a way I found forgiveable: it was for such reasons as you described, perhaps with the additional factor of her being an unhappy teenager. I was a young INFP that was so easily hurt (just as she was a young ENTJ without much patience and sensitivity) and it did so often hurt me. She was harsh and callous at times but not a bad person by any means. I actually liked her in spite of it. I'm not that kind towards most of the people that have bullied me and usually refuse to make excuses for their behaviour, so it is saying something.
 

Raffaella

bon vivant
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
945
Not to be rude, but if this is directed at me in any way, it's like trying to teach your granny to suck eggs. I am an INFP after all - this sort of thinking is my natural mindset. ;)

It wasn't directed at you (hence the dashed lines between) but I do understand your perspective now, fellow fi-dom.
 

Little_Sticks

New member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
1,358
Could you imagine having a conversation with him regarding precognition, synchronicity, or NDE's?

Actually, we've never talked about those things, but once he asked about a book I was reading, a book that involved Jungian symbolism and incorporated his psychological types into the characters. I tried to explain what that was and he knew immediately that I was going to say it was based on philosophical attitudes that we all seem to have. I was surprised because he not only knew about it, but understood what it was at the core. If I could figure out a way to get a discussion out of those things, I'd love to ask him about them.
 

lulabelle

New member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
255
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Have any of you ENTJs ever dated a 4w5 INFP? curious.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I've noticed this in some online forums, as far as people who identify as ENTJ, but those I've met in person whom I've typed as ENTJ did not strike me that way. They certainly had "strong" personalities, but they didn't come across as bullies nor "sadistic".
I thought maybe that was more of an enneagram 8 thing, and that perhaps 8s mistype as ENTJ (as profiles often seem to conflate the two).

I haven't met many ENTJs in person (perhaps the type I've come across the least in person), but I've found them far less abrasive than the many ESTJs I've met....
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I've noticed this in some online forums, as far as people who identify as ENTJ, but those I've met in person whom I've typed as ENTJ did not strike me that way. They certainly had "strong" personalities, but they didn't come across as bullies nor "sadistic".
I thought maybe that was more of an enneagram 8 thing, and that perhaps 8s mistype as ENTJ (as profiles often seem to conflate the two).

I haven't met many ENTJs in person (perhaps the type I've come across the least in person), but I've found them far less abrasive than the many ESTJs I've met....

Actually that's kind of true. On many other sites you'll find a plethora of ENTJ bullies but in real life I have never met one. This is why I think those are actually narcissists and in real life they may not even be ENTJ's.

But there are some sick and sadistic ENTJ's online, that's for sure. I haven't met any here thus far and that's what I love about Type-o central.

The people on some sites claiming to be ENTJ's are by far the most sadistic out of any other type I've met...based on claims.
 

iHeartCats

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
213
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
no
There are degrees of bullying of course and ENTJ's have a particular style of afflicting others when they are in their inferior mode of operation...that is when they think they are so objective they become tyrants and cruelly subjective and harm in their environment with false pretenses of "helping you."

This is what my ENTJ boss does. The thing that I can never understand is whether she is aware that she's doing it, or is it the enormous lack of Fi that causes her to believe that she's helping her subordinates when she's actually harming them.
 

blahblahbob

New member
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
127
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
Have any of you ENTJs ever dated a 4w5 INFP? curious.

I knew an INTJ who dated what I'm sure was a 4w5 INFP - he went nuts when she dumped him after three years - started using hard drugs and basically dropped out of life. She's so much of an "out there" INFP that I look like a TJ compared to her.
 
Top