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[ENTJ] Why do ENTJ's bully

Avocado

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Not always though. I can get along with ENTJ's really well. That said it can also result in a spectacular explosion if either party digs their heels and refuses to move.

Je...Always the victor...
 
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So I went to this grad school with a lot of female ENTJ Art Directors (for some reason the males were LESS inclined to be disrespectful, but maybe that was my experience) and boy, they liked to talk shit, and in public.

At first it caught me off guard, but it takes one lesson for me, so I always had my guns loaded after that.

And from then on, whenever an ENTJ tried to belittle me, I struck back pretty hard (verbally mind you, haha) in public around their peers, and occasionally left them crying (keep in mind I don't LIKE doing that sort of thing).

A few came up to me and asked why I was so mean. It was ironic because they were the ones being assholes first, I was merely responding, in fact I said "You get what you give with me."

They never tried anything after that, like a mutual respect, and actually I became friends with many of them.
 
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ENTJ seem strong (which does not mean stable), but under the armor, there are big fears of losing control.

I'm dating an ENTJ. If you are too dependent they almost reject you.

If you are remote they start to worry and do as if they don't give a damn !

If you explain them you have your own ideas, feelings, and need your own space and points of view,

if they are healthy enough there is a chance that they could understand you.

I refuse to fight with "my ENTJ". They can be cynical, which make me even more remote, and even completely cut off emotionally.

They think they are right. But I love proving them they are wrong;)

Like ENTP they have to learn their weaknesses and appreciate living their emotional life in a more healthy way.

Avoid falling in their trap : they often wait for you to react to what they say.

When the last email of my date said : "So that's fine, we're gonna meet for christmas", I did not answer.

When we phoned each other next he forgot what he said ! I answered him :
"Christmas is fine to me !"

Then he immediately tried to convince me. And here, one has to be firm : if you need some space, some loneliness and peace, just go for a long walk and tell them once. JUST ONCE. CLEARLY.

They should understand different points of views and feelings. And adapt to them or will be abandoned sooner or later:dry:
 

á´…eparted

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Je...Always the victor...

Not really. I actually don't care about winning most of the time. What I care more about is things being right. I'll easily aquiesse for even if it means losing if there is a reason to.

More of it comes from being determined if one knows they are right with what they have done. I can't speak for Te-doms, but I have observed they have a strong drive to win debates more so than Fe-doms. Usually what I'll do is state my piece and if the other party fails to acknowledge it then that's their issue not mine. Most Fe-doms lack the patience for that.

The times where I'll dig my heels in are when I know I am right, and if being unable to hold that would result in bad consequences.
 

Southern Kross

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Actually, I have FAR more problems with xNTPs on forums than ENTJs. :D

IRL I have been bullied by 2 ENTJs but only one was in a truly unforgivable manner. That one exempt, mostly it's a matter of getting used to the bluntness and condescension. They can't say what they really feel half the time and so you have to learn to read their backwards strange methods of expression. Like getting used to the idea that, "you fucking idiot" is actually is a term of endearment. :laugh: But seriously, maturity is a big factor in all this - if they haven't learn to use Te as anything other than a hammer, they're going to struggle in the people skills department. I had a ENTJ lecturer at uni who was blunt and critical but was the best teacher I've ever had.
 

Coriolis

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Actually, I have FAR more problems with xNTPs on forums than ENTJs. :D

IRL I have been bullied by 2 ENTJs but only one was in a truly unforgivable manner. That one exempt, mostly it's a matter of getting used to the bluntness and condescension. They can't say what they really feel half the time and so you have to learn to read their backwards strange methods of expression. Like getting used to the idea that, "you fucking idiot" is actually is a term of endearment. :laugh: But seriously, maturity is a big factor in all this - if they haven't learn to use Te as anything other than a hammer, they're going to struggle in the people skills department. I had a ENTJ lecturer at uni who was blunt and critical but was the best teacher I've ever had.
I have seen most of these criticisms levelled against INTJs as well. Do you notice a difference in your interactions with the two NTJ types?
 

Southern Kross

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I have seen most of these criticisms levelled against INTJs as well. Do you notice a difference in your interactions with the two NTJ types?
I suppose it is true of both to some extent, but subjectively speaking, I have trouble even seeing INTJs and ENTJs as similar types. They are both intelligent and keen minded, but the forcefulness, decisiveness and reactivity of ENTJs is so distinct. I suppose if a INTJ insulted you, you could miss it, but you couldn't with a ENTJ. INTJs are also more studied and cautious in presenting their thoughts; they think things over so entirely and present it holistically, which lessens the chances of giving offence or having their intentions being misunderstood (and perhaps helps conceals their annoyance with others). ENTJs do this more same process instinctively and skip the detailed analysis, allowing themselves to react and express it more immediately*. This is far more likely to result in treading on toes and potentially makes it harder to conceal displeasure. ENTJs also learn by prodding information (and people) in order to provoke new thinking, whereas INTJs prefer to absorb and retreat to mull things over (am I correct?). This doesn't always go down well.

I don't find INTJs have that same backward emotions thing either - they seem altogether more comfortable with and aware of their feelings and inner drives. ENTJs (especially the young ones) have such fear and awe for the Fi parts of themselves they seem desperate to disguise, safeguard and imprison it from intruding ideas/thoughts/feelings. Often rather than defend a view to an undesirable counterargument they seem to prefer to go on the offensive and attack others; turn things back on the other person rather than internalise the counterargument, evaluate it and consult their own opinion of it. They can run interference on themselves like no other type, and that's why you often get them saying "you're an idiot", when they really mean "I like you" (or "you're an idiot" rather than "I don't want to have to deal with this"). Maturity comes from greater comfort with Fi and being able to internalising the world without freaking out.

Would you agree with all this? Or is your experience of it different?




*Strangely I relate to this more lately. I find myself telling people, "No. You're wrong", before I've thought through how that comes across (which is not well). It's not an insult - it's just a knee jerk reaction to inaccuracy that I fail express tactfully. Actually, I've found myself becoming more resistant to the internalising aspect and going on the offensive too. With development, the Fi-Te axis grows surprisingly alike over time...
 
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Sorry to cut in, but I've never been bothered by INTJs. I could see it and also, half the people don't have their type up.

And strangely, IRL, 3 different times ENTJs were trying to test me, I got the exact same 3 statements "I only do it to you, Johnny."

I wonder if there's an ENTJ/ENTP thing/something going on.
 

Jaguar

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Sorry to cut in, but I've never been bothered by INTJs. I could see it and also, half the people don't have their type up.

And strangely, IRL, 3 different times ENTJs were trying to test me, I got the exact same 3 statements "I only do it to you, Johnny."

I wonder if there's an ENTJ/ENTP thing/something going on.

Looks like an ENTJ thinks you're speshul. :D
 
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The INTJ I know never tried to control me. They remain introverts and thinkers. We share great ideas, and they like me to decide for my own life.

I don't think I have ever dated an INTJ, so I can't talk about their behaviour within a relationship. I know them as reflective, respectful, intelligent, and secret.


ENTJ is the king of test, but with other NT the challenge is less easy for them.

I used to enter their game for the thrill of arguments. As I'm now working on my own feelings, I can become more remote under stress...

ENTJ/ENTP... something going on ? I become generally very stubborn facing EXXJ authority in a work place.

Depending on our values, more than our types, yes, some great friendship can take place. I love their frankness. Their cynism is ignored.



What do you think of Eric Cantona, is he an ENTJ ? ;)

Unhealthy ENTJ love to impress others.
 

Raffaella

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I suppose if a INTJ insulted you, you could miss it, but you couldn't with a ENTJ.

I would be more hurt by the words of an INTJ than ENTJ because INTJs understand people better and are better able to recognize how their actions can hurt people. It also feels more personal with INTJs whereas the Fi of ENTJ is stunted; they don’t choose people based on their understanding of someone’s individual weakness, they choose anyone that can’t speak Te.

ENTJs (especially the young ones) have such fear and awe for the Fi parts of themselves they seem desperate to disguise, safeguard and imprison it from intruding ideas/thoughts/feelings.

Just like an Fi-dom, they are confused on what to do with their inferior function. You’re projecting a lot of negativity onto it, think about it, what do you do with your Te? No ones knows what to do with their inferior, it’s invasive and bewildering.

Often rather than defend a view to an undesirable counterargument they seem to prefer to go on the offensive and attack others; turn things back on the other person rather than internalise the counterargument, evaluate it and consult their own opinion of it.

That sounds like an ENTJ under a lot of stress, they’re much more reasonable and focused usually.

They can run interference on themselves like no other type, and that's why you often get them saying "you're an idiot", when they really mean "I like you" (or "you're an idiot" rather than "I don't want to have to deal with this"). Maturity comes from greater comfort with Fi and being able to internalising the world without freaking out.

I’m not sure I agree that they run interference on themselves. They’re very literal people, what you see is what you get. The only difference between them and ESTJs is that you can get a explanation out of the ESTJ, ENTJ are good at explaining, they just can’t be bothered.


-----------​


People have to remember when dealing with ENTJs, you’re dealing with a rougher, more goal-orientated, extroverted, expansive, and efficiency driven version of the INTP. Both aren’t people focused and forget to consider the values and feelings of those around them. The difference is that INTPs are focused on the possibilities of the system, ENTJs are focused on bringing the most efficient possibility to life. One is theoretical, the other is practical.

The other difference is that Te-doms have the least Fe (and since their Fi is baby) of all types therefore they’re the type most likely to dismiss social harmony, values and personal values. This makes them appear merciless and egoistical but they’re not. An ENTJ is the most loyal, hardworking type you’ll meet. They dedicate their lives to improving everyone else’s through practical means just as an Fe-dom dedicates their life to maintaining social values.

Also, in regards to being bullied, in their minds you’re not being bullied, they disregard their Fi and charge through thinking it’s appropriate behavior. Before you judge them, remember your inferior function and what you neglect. Charge back at them, they’ll respect you more. Think about it, you love it when people speak with your functions, therefore ENTJs want you to speak through their functions. Do it, charge back at them, they're hard to offend.


-----------​


How come ENTJs are so mean for telling other people what they think and yet, everyone loves to tell ENTJs their negative thoughts about them? This I find to be pretty funny, in an ironic way.

I agree but at the same time, some people genuinely don't understand ENTJs.
 

prplchknz

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when someone says something in a thread about it the other person is a hypocrite :rolleyes: stupid baby ass fi. If there was a thread inviting criticisms on a different type the ENTJs could come on and criticize. what i'm talking about is the other type is eating a sandwhich minding their own business not asking for anything opinion wise from the ENTJ and the ENTJ comes over and tells the other person what's wrong with them. If you don't want to hear criticism about your type don't come into a thread called "Why do ENTJ's bully"
 

Raffaella

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when someone says something in a thread about it the other person is a hypocrite :rolleyes: stupid baby ass fi. If there was a thread inviting criticisms on a different type the ENTJs could come on and criticize. what i'm talking about is the other type is eating a sandwhich minding their own business not asking for anything opinion wise from the ENTJ and the ENTJ comes over and tells the other person what's wrong with them. If you don't want to hear criticism about your type don't come into a thread called "Why do ENTJ's bully"

LOL. In fairness to Andante, this thread did sort of turn into a "victims of ENTJs" support group. Hopefully, we can get some understanding on both sides.
 

rav3n

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Haha, but it's good to have someone explain the misinterpretation and I also don't want to see this thread derailed.
Understood. No disagreement from me.

There are two types of ENTJs. Assholes and ones who try not to be assholes. The ones who try not to be assholes, lean towards Enneatype threes or assorted Enneatypes with SO as their top instinctual stacking, since social veneer is important to them.

ENTJs can be bullies or misinterpreted as bullies. It really depends on their motivation behind the behaviour. But one thing that I find curious, is the belief that we don't know what we're doing. We do know but just don't care, since there are people who are relevant or irrelevant to us. Inner circle people are relevant, in terms of caring about their feelings. These are the people who can hurt us. The next circle would be people who we're neutral towards, respect or are friendly with, whose feelings matter to us to some extent although they can't hurt us. Outside these two circles, others are largely irrelevant unless they become useful to us.
 

prplchknz

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I think ENTJs know exactly what they're doing.
 

Raffaella

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There are two types of ENTJs. Assholes and ones who try not to be assholes. The ones who try not to be assholes, lean towards Enneatype threes or assorted Enneatypes with SO as their top instinctual stacking, since social veneer is important to them.

I don't think it's that easy to generalise, I think it's different from ENTJ to ENTJ. My father and friends are both e8 sx-doms yet they get along well with everyone and have noble pursuits.


ENTJs can be bullies or misinterpreted as bullies. It really depends on their motivation behind the behaviour. But one thing that I find curious, is the belief that we don't know what we're doing... Outside these two circles, others are largely irrelevant unless they become useful to us.

What I meant is that you don't always recognise the extent of how much it hurts someone nor do you put much weight on it. You do care more for your inner circle but at times you get carried away, eschewing personal values and integrity for the goal because that's what you're mostly focused on. You're hard to offend therefore don't put weight onto the importance of feelings (low fi).
 

rav3n

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I don't think it's that easy to generalise, I think it's different from ENTJ to ENTJ. My father and friends are both e8 sx-doms yet they get along well with everyone and have noble pursuits.
Without knowing them, I can't comment.

You're hard to offend therefore don't put weight onto the importance of feelings (low fi).
It's interesting how you've worded this, putting effect before cause. It points to our differences in focus which most likely correlates to the differences in our functional stacking. You don't have your type in your profile but based on our interactions, it's possible to guess two letters.
 

GarrotTheThief

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Without knowing them, I can't comment.

It's interesting how you've worded this, putting effect before cause. It points to our differences in focus which most likely correlates to the differences in our functional stacking. You don't have your type in your profile but based on our interactions, it's possible to guess two letters.


Real quick..I'm an ENTJ. I'm not a scientist but every day I read scientific breakthroughs from the most established universities in the world and during any age or time in human history.

I've actually debated this with other ENTJ's. They seem to think that the law of causality negates the ability of photons and muons which have been empirically measured to travel back in time from affecting us in any significant way.

This closes them off to any sort of discussion regarding precognition or para-psychological studies that might be conducted showing that perhaps the result sometimes is the cause and the cause is the effect. Again, I know it's a far stretch from our practical lives. When betting on horses or building rocket ships best to conform to Newtonian physics. But if chaos theory is true, which it is, and photons and muons travel back in time, which they do, then it seems actually quite logical that the effects and cause can intertwine in ways that are probabilistic in nature and not necessarily discrete or binary.

As an ENTJ, growing up, I would never believe in such a thing and wouldn't understand it in the literature, but as an individual who has had precognitive dreams I have to go with the empirical evidence.

I'm just giving an example of how TE doesn't necessarily lead to the same conclusions between two different users. It's TE in conjunction with Experience which creates the ideology of the individual hence I get along better with INFJ's and intuitive types than I do with extroverted thinkers even though my TE is stellar par-excellence.

That aside, the statement reminds me of this nifty song which is quite catchy.

That being said, I think it's interesting we brought up INTJ's here too. We should compare the INTJ bully to the ENTJ bully further.

As for victims, well i notice it is quite common for the eNTJ to allude to the one in opposition as a victim but I notice you are not a bully and sincerely mean to allude to the victim complex.

The truth is no complex on its own can be taken for face value. Sometimes the victim is the hunter and sometimes the hunter is the hunted. The human psyche can take many forms. Sometimes its symbol inwardly is the wolf when outwardly it appears the sheep.
 
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