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  1. #41
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Without knowing them, I can't comment.

    It's interesting how you've worded this, putting effect before cause. It points to our differences in focus which most likely correlates to the differences in our functional stacking. You don't have your type in your profile but based on our interactions, it's possible to guess two letters.

    Real quick..I'm an ENTJ. I'm not a scientist but every day I read scientific breakthroughs from the most established universities in the world and during any age or time in human history.

    I've actually debated this with other ENTJ's. They seem to think that the law of causality negates the ability of photons and muons which have been empirically measured to travel back in time from affecting us in any significant way.

    This closes them off to any sort of discussion regarding precognition or para-psychological studies that might be conducted showing that perhaps the result sometimes is the cause and the cause is the effect. Again, I know it's a far stretch from our practical lives. When betting on horses or building rocket ships best to conform to Newtonian physics. But if chaos theory is true, which it is, and photons and muons travel back in time, which they do, then it seems actually quite logical that the effects and cause can intertwine in ways that are probabilistic in nature and not necessarily discrete or binary.

    As an ENTJ, growing up, I would never believe in such a thing and wouldn't understand it in the literature, but as an individual who has had precognitive dreams I have to go with the empirical evidence.

    I'm just giving an example of how TE doesn't necessarily lead to the same conclusions between two different users. It's TE in conjunction with Experience which creates the ideology of the individual hence I get along better with INFJ's and intuitive types than I do with extroverted thinkers even though my TE is stellar par-excellence.

    That aside, the statement reminds me of this nifty song which is quite catchy.


    That being said, I think it's interesting we brought up INTJ's here too. We should compare the INTJ bully to the ENTJ bully further.

    As for victims, well i notice it is quite common for the eNTJ to allude to the one in opposition as a victim but I notice you are not a bully and sincerely mean to allude to the victim complex.

    The truth is no complex on its own can be taken for face value. Sometimes the victim is the hunter and sometimes the hunter is the hunted. The human psyche can take many forms. Sometimes its symbol inwardly is the wolf when outwardly it appears the sheep.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  2. #42
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    It's interesting how you've worded this, putting effect before cause. It points to our differences in focus which most likely correlates to the differences in our functional stacking. You don't have your type in your profile but based on our interactions, it's possible to guess two letters.
    And, I thought I could hide - good pick-up, I am a feeler (INFP). So far, do I understand ENTJs?
    Likes GarrotTheThief liked this post

  3. #43
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    And, I thought I could hide - good pick-up, I am a feeler (INFP). So far, do I understand ENTJs?
    Guessed as much based on the focuses in your posts!

    More than others, although I do caution against viewing ENTJs in such a positive light. The two ENTJs you referenced, notice how you're in their inner circle? This impacts on how they choose to behave towards you.

    But I will say that with your positive and respectful focus, it can cause a return of same from ENTJs. Notice our positive interactions? Nicely done.
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  4. #44
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Yes. It's true. ENTJ's are very loyal creatures and if you are in their inner circle you may either receive undying gratitude or severe anger displacement depending on what they had to bite their tongue on about at work.

    ENTJ's ironically are not confrontational to authority if that authority provides them with a means of rising through the ranks so they will unconsciously take it out on their loved ones - a product of inferior FI they must struggle with in life. So they may actually take a lot of abuse from their bosses if they see no other way to be free until they finally snap.

    EDIT: They actually don't realize they are victims until days later when they understand the subtle dynamics of what has occured...so this is why they are so hard and reluctant to expose their underbellies.

    Sometimes this anger displacement is simply shutting down and being remote when the other needs you to be open and sensitive and sometime they are sudden outbursts.

    It's because the ENTJ feels oppressed by routine yet conforms to it as a means of control and furthering one's own freedom. It's a matte of "if you can't beat them join them," and also changing the system by conforming to it.

    The gravity of routine ways down on the ENTJ but they gain energy from goal achievement so it's a catch 22 in their lives until they tap into NI-SE-FI and even go in to the shadow to retrieve the gold.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.
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  5. #45
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Guessed as much based on the focuses in your posts!

    More than others, although I do caution against viewing ENTJs in such a positive light. The two ENTJs you referenced, notice how you're in their inner circle? This impacts on how they choose to behave towards you.

    But I will say that with your positive and respectful focus, it can cause a return of same from ENTJs. Notice our positive interactions? Nicely done.
    Haha, thanks. You're right, I should be more balanced however I find it hard to generalise that they're all bullies. Some are (as other types) but we need to understand why they are or appear to be.

  6. #46
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    Yes. It's true. ENTJ's are very loyal creatures and if you are in their inner circle you may either receive undying gratitude or severe anger displacement depending on what they had to bite their tongue on about at work.

    ENTJ's ironically are not confrontational to authority if that authority provides them with a means of rising through the ranks so they will unconciously take it out on their loved ones - a product of inferior FI they must struggle with in life.
    Only unhealthy ENTJs will take out their anger on loved ones. Quit misportraying ENTJs.
    Likes GarrotTheThief liked this post

  7. #47
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    Haha, thanks. You're right, I should be more balanced however I find it hard to generalise that they're all bullies. Some are (as other types) but we need to understand why they are or appear to be.
    Yeah, sometimes we're bullies, other times portrayed as bullies due to misinterpretation and lastly, portrayed as bullies by individuals with victim mentality. It's rare you'll find an ENTJ who's consistently a deliberate bully.
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  8. #48
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Only unhealthy ENTJs will take out their anger on loved ones. Quit misportraying ENTJs.
    this thread is about unhealthy ENTJ's since bullying is considered mentally unhealthy so it's implied in every post that we are speaking of a minority or select few of unhealthy ENTJ's.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  9. #49
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    this thread is about unhealthy ENTJ's since bullying is considered mentally unhealthy so it's implied in every post that we are speaking of a minority or select few.
    Bullying is of itself, not emotionally unhealthy. It's like every other human behaviour. It's magnitude that defines healthy or unhealthy, at least based on psychological parameters.

    You personally felt victimised by other ENTJs who didn't believe you were an ENTJ. Frankly, I agree with them. Your posts come across as very un-ENTJ like, far more EN?P.

  10. #50
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Bullying is of itself, not emotionally unhealthy. It's like every other human behaviour. It's magnitude that defines healthy or unhealthy, at least based on psychological parameters.

    You personally felt victimised by other ENTJs who didn't believe you were an ENTJ. Frankly, I agree with them. Your posts come across as very un-ENTJ like, far more EN?P.
    You do realize that the notion that bullying is unhealthy or healthy is subjective but there is empirical evidence which demonstrates it isn't healthy?

    Just out of curiosity you are aware that attempting to type someone over the internet in itself is a demonstration of inferior TE?

    Maybe you're the one who isn't an ENTJ? Perhaps you are the issue?
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

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