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  1. #301
    Xena's boyfriend Bardsandwarriors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    The bullying I'm referring too sounds like this...

    "Even a moron knows how derivatives are valued"

    "You have to be a retard. Unless your mother dropped you when you were a baby and you had some serious brain damage and can barely feed yourself perhaps you would know about the black-sholes model."

    "I'm user777, you retard...you're clearly an idiot.."

    "even a moron could do that..."
    Were you able to get the ages of the protagonists? I am guessing 15.
    Status: was , then , now
    Neutral good Fi-ENFp 4w3 sp/so 479 gentle spirit, 50yo male. Travels the land seeking a good sig line.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    I was thinking on the ENTJ/INTJ divide and have found two clips that I feel summarize both sides pretty eloquently.

    ENTJ Bullying



    INTJ Intimidation

    Vito Corleone is not INTJ. Common misconception. He is xNFJ. His concerns were ones of unity and peaceful order among the 5 families. Just watch part 2. Fe abounds (murdering Don Fanucci for taking advantage of the poor folk of his community, confronting the landlord in defense of the old lady who was behind on rent who he responded to with an expression of piercing compassion upon listening to her description of her plight, among other examples). Fictional underworld boss with little reservations about using violence as a means to an end does not always equal NTJ.

  3. #303
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I'm British, if that wasn't obvious by the impeccable manners and excellent command of English.
    No, it wasn't obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    As a brit I'm brought up with a conversational style which requires the listener to do some of the work. When I started posting on forums I was greeted with a lot of people who wanted me to explain everything and would make aspersions based on me not explaining myself to their satisfaction. Now I could have just stuck talking to those who could follow me and put two fingers up to all others but that would say as much about how limited my capabilities are as theirs. Hence I've learned to be less non-sequiturs but it doesn't stop me meandering around a subject like a cross eyed glaswegian after a long night out.

    I would suggest the same to you. You know your preferences but are you aware if the preferences of the other person and are you as accommodating as you are asking them to be?
    I agree with the listener having a share of the work of communication. I am also willing to explain myself or elaborate when asked. I am not going to assume that's what the other person wants, though, until they do ask. This is because I am not aware of someone else's preferences until they express them. I am far more forgiving on the receiving end of communication that is not my style, meaning it is easier for me to hear someone else's style than to try to express myself in a style not my own. I see that as letting me be me, and you be you. When the inevitable misunderstanding or confusion arises, whoever has it just raises the flag, and we revisit that part of the discussion.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes Tippo liked this post

  4. #304
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I agree with the listener having a share of the work of communication. I am also willing to explain myself or elaborate when asked. I am not going to assume that's what the other person wants, though, until they do ask. This is because I am not aware of someone else's preferences until they express them. I am far more forgiving on the receiving end of communication that is not my style, meaning it is easier for me to hear someone else's style than to try to express myself in a style not my own. I see that as letting me be me, and you be you. When the inevitable misunderstanding or confusion arises, whoever has it just raises the flag, and we revisit that part of the discussion.
    Sorry but that's still not flexing away from your comfort zone and reduces the likely efficacy of the conversation. Not all types are as prone to be comfortable with "revisiting" parts if the discussion as they may feel that to be risking confrontation. Their chosen course maybe to not speak of it and just to walk away.

    Of course you are free to not care and continue upon your merry way ,however, then one of those annoying things which forms a block between the current position and the goal is you.

    My father struggled to deal with my sister and I for many years. We are linked by the trait of stubbornness and dislike of assumed authority. Only after he learned of MBTI and only after he applied his knowledge to his communication and put the effort in, only then did he find it all much easier to do. There are still days when he just doesn't care and will do the cannon approach and just blast through opposition but he has the option.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #305
    Injustice Needs To stoP RandomINTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I wouldn't call any types universally good or evil.
    Morality:
    Wrong. Good and Evil belongs to the ethical axis.
    The moral axis is the Law and Chaos part of the alignment.
    I think it is kinda type related though. Have you noticed that Js are usually lawful whereas Ps are usually chaotic? Of course there's neutral morality but in general, J means Law and P means chaos. I personally see myself as Chaotic Good/Chaotic Neutral/True Neutral.

  6. #306
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    Wrong. Good and Evil belongs to the ethical axis.
    The moral axis is the Law and Chaos part of the alignment.
    I think it is kinda type related though. Have you noticed that Js are usually lawful whereas Ps are usually chaotic? Of course there's neutral morality but in general, J means Law and P means chaos. I personally see myself as Chaotic Good/Chaotic Neutral/True Neutral.
    Depends upon how you define law vs chaos. If you go back to the books, one values structure and the other independence . I know plenty of Js who value the latter and I, for one, do not cherish life without structure. Too many variables and no solutions.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
    Likes EJCC, Bush Did 9/11 liked this post

  7. #307
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Sorry but that's still not flexing away from your comfort zone and reduces the likely efficacy of the conversation. Not all types are as prone to be comfortable with "revisiting" parts if the discussion as they may feel that to be risking confrontation. Their chosen course maybe to not speak of it and just to walk away.
    And I could walk away when they start speaking what might sound like random gibberish to me. That would be staying in my comfort zone. If I have any stake in the outcome, however, I will try to figure out what they mean, then ask them if I have interpreted correctly. Sometimes it takes several iterations to get it right. If I didn't care, I wouldn't bother. I don't think it is too much to expect that they might put out a bit of effort if what I say doesn't immediately make sense to them. The idea of my being able (1) to correctly guess how the other person prefers to hear information, and (2) to deliver my content in just that manner, multiplied by the diversity of humans and human expression, is more than unrealistic. It is ridiculous.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes Tippo liked this post

  8. #308
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    And I could walk away when they start speaking what might sound like random gibberish to me. That would be staying in my comfort zone. If I have any stake in the outcome, however, I will try to figure out what they mean, then ask them if I have interpreted correctly. Sometimes it takes several iterations to get it right. If I didn't care, I wouldn't bother. I don't think it is too much to expect that they might put out a bit of effort if what I say doesn't immediately make sense to them. The idea of my being able (1) to correctly guess how the other person prefers to hear information, and (2) to deliver my content in just that manner, multiplied by the diversity of humans and human expression, is more than unrealistic. It is ridiculous.
    Whilst I agree with your concept and sympathise with the issue, I have one counter point which represents my mother's input to my psyche (I think).

    What's more ridiculous, that you have to guess how to deliver your content across the diversity of humanity or every other person you meet putting the effort in? You cannot control other people no matter how hard you try, so you may as well assume responsibility for it in general and hope to be proved wrong regularly.

    I would never expect anyone to constantly moderate their communication to suit the other person but it does make sense to always be aware of how you may come across and your tendencies in communication the same way as type.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
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  9. #309
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Whilst I agree with your concept and sympathise with the issue, I have one counter point which represents my mother's input to my psyche (I think).

    What's more ridiculous, that you have to guess how to deliver your content across the diversity of humanity or every other person you meet putting the effort in? You cannot control other people no matter how hard you try, so you may as well assume responsibility for it in general and hope to be proved wrong regularly.

    I would never expect anyone to constantly moderate their communication to suit the other person but it does make sense to always be aware of how you may come across and your tendencies in communication the same way as type.
    Every other person should put some effort in, just like me. Yes, I know not everyone does. Not everyone manages debt well or eats a healthy diet or shows up to work on time. Still, we value these things for the most part. I'm not sure how telling someone you didn't understand them is such an imposition. Seems like simple common sense, not to mention the best way to figure out how you come across.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #310
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    My father struggled to deal with my sister and I for many years. We are linked by the trait of stubbornness and dislike of assumed authority. Only after he learned of MBTI and only after he applied his knowledge to his communication and put the effort in, only then did he find it all much easier to do. There are still days when he just doesn't care and will do the cannon approach and just blast through opposition but he has the option.
    My father is an ENTJ and we like to refer to it as the "nuclear option". I know he knows at least a little about MBTI so, he can adjust his communication. That has increased as he's gotten older but how much is really an adjustment on his part and how much is him simply growing weary of the fight, I'm not sure.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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